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cheap 16mm filmout framing iPad 3 screen ?


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#1 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:46 AM

The original footage is regular 8mm scanned at 2K(got image sequence not continuous movie), then restored, cleaned and ready for projection. Now the (weird ?) idea is to print to 16mm film for projection ( i have already all 16mm camera and projector gears) instead of videoprojection (to buy or rent) Could it work ? Anyone experience ?
Thanks.
Roberto
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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:00 AM

So you want to play the file on an iPad and shoot the screen with a 16mm camera? You'd be better off shooting a non-reflective, larger computer monitor. Either way however would probably look pretty crappy.

However, if you've gone through all the trouble of scanning at 2K and restoring this footage, the REAL way to do it is a true film output. You'll have a 16mm negative from which you can make multiple positive prints and project with a 16mm projector. There are several companies that do this although most are very expensive. Here's one that looks very reasonable at $110/minute:

http://www.videofilmsolutions.com/

Other other advantage of this is you'll have a high quality film output for archiving and storage since 50 years from now your 2K files will be unreadable but your film will be perfect (if stored properly).
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#3 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:50 AM

Hi Will, thanks for your reply. Well, the Ipad 3 screen looks far better detailed than monitor computer to me., so this idea. Anyway, yes the film archiving properties and film projection look was the spring that drove me. But 150Dollars /minute is out of my budget since this film is 90 minutes long with soundtrack !
Regards.
Rob
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:20 PM

You have 90 minutes worth of 2K DPX files? That must be huge.

I'm sure they can work out a deal for you but it would of course be at least $8000 or so. Not bad if it was going into the festival circuit.
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#5 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

Yes, it is a giant file size TIFF uncompressed 15 MB per frame. Years ago i did blow up some regular 8 Kodachrome frames to 16mm and they came out great.Only colors were faded but still very good. Festivals ? It could be an idea, but it is in italian language and should be subtitled al least.
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#6 Chris Millar

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:53 PM

Hi Will, thanks for your reply. Well, the Ipad 3 screen looks far better detailed than monitor computer to me., so this idea. Anyway, yes the film archiving properties and film projection look was the spring that drove me. But 150Dollars /minute is out of my budget since this film is 90 minutes long with soundtrack !
Regards.
Rob


It depends on the viewing distance ...

Resolution is resolution - a monitor with the same pixel dimensions will end up being the same once you've zoomed in or out ;)

The real issue you're going to have is getting the highlights and shadows to work, the curves are going to be all weird.



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#7 Chris Burke

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:15 AM

I would test different monitors with different stocks. 7203 is probably the best choice. The iPad, although good looking ,may not deliver. A monitor that can display the full frame at full rez is what you need. I once shot some dv footage and recorded it to S8mm stock, reversal and the results weren't all that bad. It does take some fiddling about, but it is possible. I would really recommend that you contact any and all labs that do this, you may get a deal you can't refuse. Also, it may end up being similar in cost to record to 35mm.
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#8 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:41 PM

So no cheap filmout chance eh ? Anyway thanks for your helps guys, i am resigned to videoproject it now.
Regards.
Rob
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#9 John Salim

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:52 PM

Hello Roberto,
There’s a guy in your native Italy who’s designed and built a custom system to record digital files onto 16mm film with sound.
Although they’re not produced like ‘real’ filmouts, the results are pretty good and very economical.
( about 6 euros per minute ).

He’s helped many in the 16mm film collecting community repair and restore their movies.

Check out this YouTube video and you’ll see what I mean !




John S :rolleyes:
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#10 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:04 PM

@ John Salim, yes that is a more affordable price, very interesting thanks for the link.
@ Chris Millar, i do not understand exactly what you mean "resolution is resolution..." i have not yet seen a computer monitor that can compete with my 25 years old analog PAL 720x576 Sony PVM 2042QM monitor !
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#11 Chris Millar

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 01:43 AM

My comment hinged on the technical definition of resolution. Not the perceived 'resolution' but the simple but strict count of pixels along the height and width of a frame.

Resolution is resolution as pixel density is pixel density (or pitch, it's reciprocal). These values have no extrinsic reliance on viewing distance so a camera framed to a screen in the same way allows us to compare resolutions directly I'm terms of these intrinsic numbers.

But of course, maybe your iPad has better contrast, which is helpful, but it's not just the contrast but the distribution/curve of the response that is really the question. A spot meter and a home brew step gradient made in Photoshop should allow you to plot this and get a relative idea between screens. Maybe even an absolute idea if you were willing to put in the time to reverse engineer the results into some push characteristic in the processing of the most ideal film.
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