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Making a Film Print for a short film: Possible upfront and hidden costs


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#1 Adam Scheiner

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:30 PM

Hello Everyone,

I've been a longtime lurker and admirer of this site, but have yet to post. A little bit about myself, I am Writer/Director and I just completed my second short film, which I am hoping to get picked up into a feature at festivals this upcoming year. I also believe that many of you know my good friend, co-collaborator, and all around lovable SOB/DoP, Adrian Sierkowski.

Now, before I ask the question, it is probably best if I give you all the background on the workflow of the film thus far:

Shooting info: On 35mm, Kodak 5219. We shot 3 PERF at speeds of mostly 24fps, but also shot some stuff at higher speeds of 60fps and 120fps. 1.85:1
Processing and Telecine: We are doing everything in NYC. For the telecine we did a Pro Res 444, FLAT Pass (To save some money), and got a Flex file to scan back to the cam originals later on.

Currently, we finished the edit and have started submitting to festivals via a Secured Online Screener through Withoutabox.

The plan from here has always been to try and raise finishing funds and get a packaged deal to do the DI (2K), color correct, and out a print (With a back up plan of going to tape if we can't get enough $$$ for the print).

Now, this is where I have put my head (well) up my you know what, because I know exactly how much I can negotiate to do the scan and CC, but I have no idea how much it costs to do make a print and am having a hard time finding a reliable answer to how much it might cost to even start negotiating with the lab. It's something I have always wanted to do, but have never been in the position to possibly do financially until just now.

So without further ado, how much would it cost to make a film print out of a 8:32 short film (With the high speed stuff in there we are probably looking at 16 minutes = how many feet if it would 3 PERF?)?

Thank you to anyone that may be able to shed some light on this in advance and I do know there are other factors that go into the cost (Buying the print stock, making time for titles and the sound), but I'm just looking to get my head around it a little more so that I can go back to the lab and not sound like a complete fool :P

Sincerely,

Adam R. Scheiner

Edited by Adam Scheiner, 19 October 2012 - 11:34 PM.

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#2 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 10:02 PM

So without further ado, how much would it cost to make a film print out of a 8:32 short film (With the high speed stuff in there we are probably looking at 16 minutes = how many feet if it would 3 PERF?)?


I don't believe that there are many 3 perf projectors outside of film labs, so you would likely have to make your master negative as 4 perf. That means a foot and a half of film a second. say you end up with 12 minutes, that is 1080 feet. Use 1100 for figuring.

http://www.niagaracu...italtofilm.html

has a listing of costs for going from digital to 35mm negative, sound negative and final print. It looks like the cost on there list would be 2.63 a foot plus the charges for the sound lab to make the sound negative. so you could pull it off for about 3-4 thousand dollars.

I am only figuring based on their price list so by all means talk to them, and your local labs, The making of the master negative is a bit of a specially so some of the post houses may do just that part. Likewise the sound nagative may also have to come from a specialist. (and perhaps require licence fees if you need a dolby track)

Some post houses can probably write your digital data out directly to print stock, but you would be back to square one if the print were to be damaged. NCL shows the price of the print once you have your negatives as under a thousand bucks each.

I don't think that it would be practicable to go directly from a 3 perf neg to a 35mm print. and you would still need a soundtrack.
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#3 Mark Dunn

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:40 AM

No doubt someone will tell me, but why not cut the neg and have a conventional contact print?
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#4 Chris Burke

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 09:48 AM

No doubt someone will tell me, but why not cut the neg and have a conventional contact print?



because he shot 3 perf and a contact print require 4 perf origination. someone correct me if I am wrong.
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#5 Will Montgomery

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:09 PM

3-Perf is for digital intermediate as far as I've ever seen. Never heard of doing prints from a 3-perf job.
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#6 Adam Scheiner

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

I don't believe that there are many 3 perf projectors outside of film labs, so you would likely have to make your master negative as 4 perf. That means a foot and a half of film a second. say you end up with 12 minutes, that is 1080 feet. Use 1100 for figuring.

http://www.niagaracu...italtofilm.html

has a listing of costs for going from digital to 35mm negative, sound negative and final print. It looks like the cost on there list would be 2.63 a foot plus the charges for the sound lab to make the sound negative. so you could pull it off for about 3-4 thousand dollars.

I am only figuring based on their price list so by all means talk to them, and your local labs, The making of the master negative is a bit of a specially so some of the post houses may do just that part. Likewise the sound nagative may also have to come from a specialist. (and perhaps require licence fees if you need a dolby track)

Some post houses can probably write your digital data out directly to print stock, but you would be back to square one if the print were to be damaged. NCL shows the price of the print once you have your negatives as under a thousand bucks each.

I don't think that it would be practicable to go directly from a 3 perf neg to a 35mm print. and you would still need a soundtrack.


Thank you very much for the info Charles. Sorry it took me a while to respond, ironically enough I was actually up in Buffalo for the weekend (I'm originally from there and still have family in the area) and I didn't even think to check out the labs in Toronto. I'm pretty loyal to the lab we are with in NYC, although there was one hiccup with the telecine, but they have been very kind with me otherwise, but if I change my mind, it's nice to know of another place that can do it.
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#7 Mark Dunn

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 03:37 AM

because he shot 3 perf and a contact print require 4 perf origination. someone correct me if I am wrong.

You're not. Der. Helps to read the post.
It's one thing to be old-fashioned but another to be plain forgetful. I'm 52, you know.
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#8 Will Montgomery

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

The company has extremely competitive pricing for film outs:

http://www.videofilmsolutions.com

Guessing a 10 minute film would be about $2800 with sound for negative and one print (they don't state costs for the sound print but it is available).

Another interesting thing doing it this way is that you could do a scope print without actually shooting scope; you'd just want as high of a starting scan as possible.
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