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Jim Slashes the cost of the Epic.


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#1 Keith Walters

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 06:53 PM

This really belongs in the "News" section, but I can't post there.
Strictly speaking, it should go in the Red folder I suppose, but nobody seems to go there any more :)

Jim Slashes the cost of the Epic.

I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on what is going on here.
In this era of corporate IPDPs (Individual Professional Development Plan) and short-term shareholder greed, it sounds almost heretical for a company to announce that it's making far more profit than it needs to, and so is reducing prices.

Either this is a refreshing example of what can happen when you don't have hordes of fretful Mom & Pop small investors snapping at your heels, or they're beginning to realize that they can only ever sell so many high-end movie cameras.

Personally, I think they should be investigating the potential of other markets such as high-end surveillance applications. For example, a new bolt-on module that allows 4K MPEG4 recording, and which can be configured as a standalone IP address, would be a real winner. With a progressive scan camera, you can pull damned fine 12 megapixel stills even from highly compressed MPEG4. Imagine being able to do that from anywhere in the world where there's an internet connection. They could probably even use up image sensors that don't quite make the grade for program production.
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#2 Geoff Howell

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 08:03 AM

'battle tested' Red One's apparently reduced to $4000
Scarlet $7,950
Epic X $19,000
EPIC-M $24,000

of course none of the prices include the expensive media, batteries, EVF etc etc
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#3 Keith Walters

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

I think that generally represents the "used" price of Red Ones.
He is still going to have a hard time overcoming "brand resistance", though, particularly in conservative TV production environments.
The name "Sony" on a camera is unfortunately worth far more than any amount of megapixels, sensor area and so on.
Just like people would pay far more for a "Panavised" Arri BL4 than they would for the real thing. :rolleyes:
Sony also stick to correct, professional, terminology, for example correctly stating the resolution of their 4K models as "twice the resolution" of 1080p, not "four times" as the cowboy element keeps calling it. (Four times the pixels, and four times the megabytes per frame to be sure, but that's what you need for TWICE the resolution).

of course none of the prices include the expensive media, batteries, EVF etc etc
That ordinary 4 pin cannon power socket will win a lot of hearts, and the fact that it outputs industry standard formats is another very attractive feature.
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#4 Richard Boddington

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:53 PM

Alexa still the same price, in fact, getting pricier!

R,
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#5 Keith Walters

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

Alexa still the same price, in fact, getting pricier!

R,


Weird, isn't it? They're losing jobs to very expensive Jap cameras, very cheap Jap cameras, and moderately expensive Kraut cameras, about equally. What does that tell you?
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#6 Vincenzo Condorelli AIC

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:07 AM

Weird, isn't it? They're losing jobs to very expensive Jap cameras, very cheap Jap cameras, and moderately expensive Kraut cameras, about equally. What does that tell you?


what you call "kraut camera" has been for 90 years the leader in movie camera manifacturing by setting the highest quality standards for the industry worldwide. ive got the honour and privilege to be friend of one of arri's top manager, he was telling me that when they set the price of the alexa they did consider any detail, starting from the cost of the plastic buttons of the menu in order to be competitive and achieve the highest quality at once.
arri would never come out with a prototype on the market, cause they know reliability is a key factor in this business and they utterly respect the craft of cinematographers. it's serious stuff, not playing for the fan boys. .
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#7 Richard Boddington

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:45 AM

arri would never come out with a prototype on the market, cause they know reliability is a key factor in this business and they utterly respect the craft of cinematographers. it's serious stuff, not playing for the fan boys. .


Total number of Alexa failures during five weeks of shooting in the woods under all sorts of harsh conditions.......zero.

R,
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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 03:44 PM

Total number of Alexa failures during five weeks of shooting in the woods under all sorts of harsh conditions.......zero.

R,


Had my Epic for 14 months, zero failures as well, it just worked out of the box.
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#9 Richard Boddington

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 06:11 PM

Had my Epic for 14 months, zero failures as well, it just worked out of the box.


You must have got a good one. I must have heard the ACs and ADs say 25 times on my shoot, "so glad that's not a RED product."

R,
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#10 Keith Walters

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:24 AM

what you call "kraut camera" has been for 90 years the leader in movie camera manifacturing by setting the highest quality standards for the industry worldwide. ive got the honour and privilege to be friend of one of arri's top manager, he was telling me that when they set the price of the alexa they did consider any detail, starting from the cost of the plastic buttons of the menu in order to be competitive and achieve the highest quality at once.
arri would never come out with a prototype on the market, cause they know reliability is a key factor in this business and they utterly respect the craft of cinematographers. it's serious stuff, not playing for the fan boys. .

OK, so make that Jap cameras, Kraut cameras and Seppo cameras. Be reasonable; if I was respectful to Arri, I'd have to be respectful to everybody... :P
There is no question the Alexa is the best digital cinematography camera currently available. It's the camera I would have built.
It's also descended from the D-20, which was introduced long before any of the RED cameras, (despite all the Fanboys' claims of "revolutionary" technology). Arri went through two generations of experimental cameras before committing themselves to serious manufacturing. They sure as hell didn't have to recall their first 100 cameras :rolleyes:

But I was just pointing out that while there are seriously high end productions that use the Alexa, there are equally high-end productions (mostly commercials) that have used the 5D! So go figure...
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#11 Keith Walters

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:25 AM

Had my Epic for 14 months, zero failures as well, it just worked out of the box.

Yeah, but you mostly use your 5D don't you :rolleyes:
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#12 Keith Walters

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:29 AM

You must have got a good one. I must have heard the ACs and ADs say 25 times on my shoot, "so glad that's not a RED product."

R,

Nobody ever got fired for buying an Arri....
Mr Boddington is currently listed among the Greatest Living Canadians, alive, dead, fictional or non-existent.
He's right up there with Megan Follows, Pamela Anderson and Xenia Seeberg....
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

Yeah, but you mostly use your 5D don't you :rolleyes:


This month is 5 days Epic, 2 days 35mm, 2 Days 5D!
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#14 Stephen Williams

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 07:16 AM

You must have got a good one. I must have heard the ACs and ADs say 25 times on my shoot, "so glad that's not a RED product."

R,


I heard the same with my shoot last week, we had 2 Epics & shot for 37 hours over 3 days, both cameras were perfect. It's more of a 'people problem' rather like horror stories of film being scratched or fogged on every shoot!

Alexa produces some great images , however suffers from IR pollution which was very obvious in Skyfall, outside with heavy ND's skin tones often looked very odd!
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#15 Keith Walters

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:38 AM

This month is 5 days Epic, 2 days 35mm, 2 Days 5D!

Aw, you're just making sh!t up, to rile Tom Lowe :lol:
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#16 Keith Walters

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:50 AM

Alexa produces some great images , however suffers from IR pollution which was very obvious in Skyfall, outside with heavy ND's skin tones often looked very odd!


I can't believe people are still unaware of this problem.
The explanation isn't exactly rocket science, as I pointed out here 3 years ago
I never got back to my carbon filter project, because I never got round to buying a stills camera with manually settable iris.
The crude ones I made definitely attenuate IR just as well as they do visible light, but I don't have a camera good enough to test the resolution hit, if any.
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#17 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:15 AM

Alexa produces some great images , however suffers from IR pollution which was very obvious in Skyfall, outside with heavy ND's skin tones often looked very odd!


Hardly an issue that only affects Alexa! Usually solved with the right IRND (or Tiffen's T1, T1/2) filters.
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#18 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:20 PM

Nobody ever got fired for buying an Arri....
Mr Boddington is currently listed among the Greatest Living Canadians, alive, dead, fictional or non-existent.
He's right up there with Megan Follows, Pamela Anderson and Xenia Seeberg....

Nobody ever got fired for buying an Arri....
Mr Boddington is currently listed among the Greatest Living Canadians, alive, dead, fictional or non-existent.
He's right up there with Megan Follows, Pamela Anderson and Xenia Seeberg....


Actually Xenia's from Germany
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0781462/
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#19 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:25 PM

Hardly an issue that only affects Alexa! Usually solved with the right IRND (or Tiffen's T1, T1/2) filters.


I suspect Mr Deakins knows perfectly well about IRND's, it's not as if he never tested the camera or the budget did not run to them. i had always heard Alexa produced the best skin tones, even with one of the best DP's in the world, it really did not cut it!
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#20 Keith Walters

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 05:01 AM

Actually Xenia's from Germany
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0781462/


All right, all right. Mr Boddington is currently listed among the Greatest Living Canadians, alive, dead, fictional, non-existent or not actually Canadian but with a body that would have Straight men weak at the knees and Gay men wishing they were Lesbians...
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