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loading film - blackout or red light?


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#1 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:37 PM

As the title says really? I'm new to loading cine film but used to loading stills film. Can I use a darkroom red/safe light to "practice loading the 400foot reels into the mags or must I use total dark and 'fumble' around?

Cheers

Simon
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#2 Mathew Rudenberg

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

The red safety light is only for photographic prints, as photographic paper is not very sensitive to red light.

I always loaded the film into the developing canister in total darkness or a changing bag. The same applies to loading film into a mag.

Edit - that being said there's no reason not to practice with dummy roll under normal light until you're comfortable enough to attempt it in the dark.

Edited by Mathew Rudenberg, 06 November 2012 - 05:36 PM.

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#3 Alan Duckworth

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 08:45 PM

A red darkroom safelight [correctly known as a 1A filter] is for use only with lith film, used mostly in graphic arts applications. Most B&W papers require a 0C [amber coloured] filter, colour photo papers require either a number 10 or number 13 filter [basically "brown"] - none of these are safe for use with camera film. Practice loading in total darkness, because that is real-life.

It is however something of a movie convention that they always seem to show darkrooms illuminated by red light - I guess it looks more dramatic than a dull, boring amber glow. And, speaking of drama, the only time I ever seem to see a darkroom protrayed in a movie or TV show is in a serial killer's basement.......
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#4 Kip Kubin

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

If it's 16mm PM me your address and I'll send you an expired roll you can practice with....I always shut my eyes even when using a tent...once you load once or twice you won't be fumbling.

Meaning you can first practice in open light, then move into darkness

Edited by Kip Kubin, 06 November 2012 - 10:16 PM.

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#5 Keith Walters

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:20 AM

Normal colour film is completely insensitive to Infrared light, and I once made up a changing box with some IR LEDs and a black and white CCD camera with the IR filter removed, so you could see what you were doing on an external monitor. I don't think it ever got a single rental!
There's too much operator mystique and ceremony involved for people to let go of. People who make a big show of removing their watches because the glow from the luminescent paint and so on. :rolleyes:
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#6 Mark Dunn

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:22 AM

A red darkroom safelight [correctly known as a 1A filter] is for use only with lith film, used mostly in graphic arts applications. Most B&W papers require a 0C [amber coloured] filter,

A red safelight is fine for b/w paper. The point is that the amber filter gives a brighter light whilst still being safe with paper, even though Multigrade paper has its sensitivity extended beyond the red to allow for the filtration which gives the variable contrast. I wouldn't use one with lith film, though, as it is a fair bit faster than paper, a few ISO against a few tenths..
But as you say, nothing at all for camera film.
Sorry to be picky. Haven't used the stuff for years but hope I still know how it works. More spiders in the darkroom than there should be.
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#7 Chris Millar

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

There has been discussion at APUG about using night vision googles when tray developing ULF negs...

Especially helpful with processes like pyro that don't translate into the tank systems like Jobo and so on so well (too much oxygen flapping around).

They did mention keeping a tight fit around the face or the spill from the eyepiece could/would cause unwanted exposure. Keith, how did you keep your monitor spill tamed?

And yeh, a little light sometimes isn't anything to worry about, after 15 minutes in a room you soon start to see the cracks. I remember winding 100' s at AtLab Auckland years ago, you'd think they'd have it tamed? No ;)
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#8 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:26 AM

Cheers everyone...Practice it is....

SK
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#9 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

Simon,
What camera(s) are you using? Just wondering if the mags are co-axial or not. If you were completely new to this I wondered if you realised that with co-axials only the feed side is done in the dark. Another thought is that you will be lucky if you always have a dark room available, so you need some practice with a canging tent or bag. Bags can be a nightmare if you are new or unfamiliar with the mags and it is hot. Especially the heavy old Harrison bags that get all sweaty and cling to your arms.

Cheers,
Gregg.

PS: I have seen some cheaper Chinese made tents on eBay that look OK. Maybe ask around on their quality first.

Edited by Gregg MacPherson, 07 November 2012 - 06:18 PM.

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#10 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 04:45 AM

Cheers greg.... Going to be using a Bolex with only daylight spools so thats ok.. I'm looking at an Arri 16s with 400foot mag so this will be my "nemesis" for the foreseeable!

I'll look into the Chinese copies as that could be a way to go... Absolutely agree with the lack of darkroom onsite..., silly thought.. As I said, new to all this. Its great taking a step back from the "clean-ness" of digital....
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#11 zachary sala

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:26 AM

personally, i wouldn't use any light as it might cause a foggy or haze quality to your film unless your using 7302 (b&w print stock). As it can be used with an orange safe light, and very low asa.
try loading the arri with a dummy roll (exposed, wasted film) once you can do it in the light, close your eyes and try to complete it.

Tents and bags are really only needed on film locations. Just find a dark room like a bathroom with no windows..wait 5 minutes to check for light leaks and that will be your best bet. I've developed thousands of feet in my bathroom this way.
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#12 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

.....Tents and bags are really only needed on film locations. Just find a dark room like a bathroom with no windows..wait 5 minutes to check for light leaks and that will be your best bet. I've developed thousands of feet in my bathroom this way.


The best advice for Simon is to learn to load his Arri mags in a changing tent or bag. It is not a good idea to always rely on a darkroom or always having to improvise a darkroom on location. Used bags are cheap on eBay. Really impotant to have that kit with you, and be practiced with it.

Zachary, I did lots of B&W processing on a 200' open spiral and also the Russian spiral tank, did lots of roll breakdowns for camera stock, stuff like that.....all in improvised darkrooms. So I get the value of them......(smily face)

Cheers,
Gregg
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#13 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

Hi Gregg... ok, assuming i'm being a cheapskate and want a changing bag and not a tent, whats the size needed for a 16mm mag, film and tin etc? Or is just "large" the ones to get? They seem to be about 40 odd inches square which doesnt seem big enough?
I'll be guided by you guys!!

SImon
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#14 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

Hi Gregg... ok, assuming i'm being a cheapskate and want a changing bag and not a tent, whats the size needed for a 16mm mag, film and tin etc? Or is just "large" the ones to get? They seem to be about 40 odd inches square which doesnt seem big enough?
I'll be guided by you guys!!
SImon


Hey Simon,
I was active in the 80s and never used a tent, but a tent will be a lot more fun if you can afford it. I saw some new tents (shipping from Hong Kong) on eBay that looked good ....
http://www.ebay.com/...=item2ec090f10c

It's 700x900x300mm high, US$100. I think this size would be OK for 400' mags. maybe they had a slightly smaller one also that would be ok.

I used an off brand bag that measured 720x650mm (28x25-1/2") for Eclair ACL and Arri II 400' mags no problem. The Harrison bags that I sometimes had to use were bigger (and sweatier).

The big Harrison bags that B&H Photo sell, 910x9100mm (36x36") I don't think you need unless you are loading 1000' mags. Something the size of a "small" Harrison, 585x760mm (27x30") would be OK. I have seen some on eBay.

Some of the other brand bags selling used on eBay may be ok, I just don't know them. Cheap enough.

Cheers,
Gregg
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#15 zachary sala

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:21 AM

The best advice for Simon is to learn to load his Arri mags in a changing tent or bag. It is not a good idea to always rely on a darkroom or always having to improvise a darkroom on location. Used bags are cheap on eBay. Really impotant to have that kit with you, and be practiced with it.

Zachary, I did lots of B&W processing on a 200' open spiral and also the Russian spiral tank, did lots of roll breakdowns for camera stock, stuff like that.....all in improvised darkrooms. So I get the value of them......(smily face)

Cheers,
Gregg

I love the lomo tank, i've also had excellent results with it. Gregg is right a dark bag/tent are a must for any filmmaker.
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#16 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:09 AM

cheers everyone.
went away and got married so hence the delay!
have the camera and ordered a bag so its practice,practice,practice..

regards
sk
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