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multi-cam shoots - sync & non


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#1 Dave Dvorchak

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:49 PM

I recently acquired a CP16R for shooting sync sound. Will mostly be shooting live bands at an art / performance space that I work at. This is the only 16mm sync camera that we have available but do have non-sync ones (K-3s and also some decent S8 cams like Canon 814xl-e and 514xl-s). There is an opportunity to buy a non-reflex CP16, and having two crystal-sync cameras to work with is certainly appealing but I don't believe I'm skilled enough to get decent results with a non-reflex camera, from what I've read.

So, how to make do with a mix of sync and non? Use the non's for crowd / room shots, close ups where sync sound isn't necessarily an issue, or brief shots where syncing in post wouldn't be too time-consuming?

Advice appreciated! Thanks.

Edited by Dave Dvorchak, 12 December 2012 - 05:49 PM.

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#2 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:27 AM

In my extremely limited experience but also quoting many from here... even non-sync cameras stay in sync for upto 30 seconds.. So if the sync cam shoots the general wide shots to capture most of the action, and then use the non-sync for cutaways and closeups/crowds etc as you thought. You'll never want any of those shots to be even half of the 30 second limit. Assuming you'll be scanning to a computer, something like a music vid is fairly easy to sync anyway....

good luck..

SK
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#3 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 08:33 AM

Agree with Simon,

If you end up using spring-wound K3s, you will get a maximum of 25 seconds in a shot (at 24 fps)- which might be just long enough to not lose the sync.

Conceptually, I would use the S8 cameras and shoot them at 18 fps for interesting inserts of the band and maybe even use the K3s for slow-motion closeups of guitar picking/ cymbal crashes etc..as long as the main sync camera is covering the performance.

Cheers!
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

I would probably keep your sync camera wide and continually running as your master shot then do closeups, crowd shots, cut-aways, ect. with the non-sync cameras.

You could use timecode slates or iPad/iPhone slates that are jam synched to your CP-16 code then periodically shoot the slate with the wild cameras, making sure you continue the shot when you pan back to the subject. Another trick would be to set off a flash while all cameras are running although that gets tricky at a live event when multiple flashes are going off. That's also difficult to even get to the correct section during editing...could turn into a nightmare.
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#5 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

I recently acquired a CP16R for shooting sync sound. Will mostly be shooting live bands at an art / performance space that I work at. This is the only 16mm sync camera that we have.....So, how to make do with a mix of sync and non?


There are a couple of ways to respond to this depending on whether you already have some objectives and boundaries in place. Are you making films about small concerts? A film about a song? Does it feel like a literal record of an event? Can it be flavoured by, or even mostly about, more non literal impressions from the performance? Impressions from outside the performance? Good to think along those lines before buying more gear.

If you aren't stuck on the idea of shooting live in a literal way, meaning everything is literally from the performance /environment and in sync, then you have some freedom that you can really enjoy. Have some fun! People have been putting pictures to music in very free ways since forever. No need to go backwards. So have an intense think on what the core idea can be. Is there a creative way to use your sync camera and support that with more expressive, less literal shots from multiple MOS cameras? Do you really need to have one continuous master shot? By default, no, unless the idea for the piece required it.

You can make a plan for where that camera can be at any time, a sequence of setups. Also, hand held movements can be coreographed.

My advice is to apply some intense, fun thinking before you shoot a piece. Find some core idea that you can then apply all your basic method to. If you draw a blank on that then you may end up with your master camera on a tripod locked off the whole time. A bit sad if you have few resources. So key things that may have big impact. Are you always visually in the performance space? Are expressive visualizations allowed? Ditto for more subtle, reflective images.

If you need another sync camera, what is wrong with the non reflex CP (CPA?). It will probably have an Angenieux zoom with a prism finder and you will be stuck with that. CP16Rs are very cheap, just try to get one that's recently serviced. Or have access to a service tech. What lenses are you using on your CP16R?

Good luck,
Gregg.
PS: All questions are rhetorical except the last one.
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#6 Simon Jon Knight

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:14 AM

Gregg does hit ona good point. If you can get an output from the stage mixer to record the audio, then you can just soot pretty much anything. Sync or not... as you can then just attach images to the sound. Even the least-serviced spring camera will stay in sync for the 5-10 seconds you'll stay on the singers lips for a shot. I challenge anyone listening to the music to point out that you are hearing a guitar play G-sharp and in fact the picture was of a guitarist playing C flat...!

Have fun.

SK
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