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Can someone give me some advice?


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#1 Josh Smailes

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:42 PM

So I am looking at a couple of different camera's for easy handheld use and great features for both low light and motion filming. At the moment I can't decide between the JVC HM150U or the Canon XF105. If some one could give me a bit of help on choosing or any other suggestions for other cameras within the same price range would be much appreciated.
thanks.
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#2 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:48 PM

From what I gather, there is about a $1,500 difference between those two cameras. The range seemed to be about $2k-$3.5k.

For digital in that range, I'd go for a Panasonic AF100 personally.

But in all seriousness, I'd pick up the CP-16R package on eBay right now that was recently serviced for $1,000. Then I'd buy about 10,000 ft of 16mm Vision3 stock with what I'd have left over from not buying the $3.5k camera. You could shoot an 80 minute feature with a ratio of 3.5:1.

Think long and hard before you invest in ANY camera. Money is hard to come by and these digital cameras come and go quickly (as well as lose their value quickly)
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#3 Adam Brown

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:07 AM

For digital in that range, I'd go for a Panasonic AF100 personally.


...and I've been looking to sell my AF100, so if you happen to go that route, it'd cost you less than an XF105 new.

PM me if you decide to go that route. :)
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#4 Christopher Sheneman

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 09:21 AM

From what I gather, there is about a $1,500 difference between those two cameras. The range seemed to be about $2k-$3.5k.

For digital in that range, I'd go for a Panasonic AF100 personally.

But in all seriousness, I'd pick up the CP-16R package on eBay right now that was recently serviced for $1,000. Then I'd buy about 10,000 ft of 16mm Vision3 stock with what I'd have left over from not buying the $3.5k camera. You could shoot an 80 minute feature with a ratio of 3.5:1.

Think long and hard before you invest in ANY camera. Money is hard to come by and these digital cameras come and go quickly (as well as lose their value quickly)


I doubt kids these days would know what to do with a CP-16R. Probably just stare at it and pee their pants while they text their mommy and daddy to come pick them up because they don't wanna be filmmakers no more. Just tell him which video camera is "better". Just pick one Matt- it doesn't matter. It's not like he cares what you think anyway- he's gonna do what he wants!
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#5 Giray Izcan

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

Josh,
I don't know those two cameras honestly, but that price range af 100 is pretty cool. As for film camera, yes you can buy a cp for that much money but with what lens? If you want the "modern" contrasty and sharp images, that angenieux 12-120 won't really cut it. Also, I suspect that you can get s16, working one anyway for that price. Obviously, you can make all those mods to make that cp more current. I shoot on NPR, and would take NPR or ACL ii over cp 16 any day. For that price range, you can even get an arri 2c, but it will be LOUD. I used to have a BL3, but those cost 4000+. I'll get one again one day. Anyways, I doubt that you have any desire to look into film, so you should go on vimeo.com and search those cameras to see some visual samples. Good luck with camera hunt.
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#6 Matt Stevens

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

i love when they come on in, ask a question and never return.

And yeah, anyone purchasing actual FILM equipment now would be crazy. Unless they know how to use it and what to do in post, it's throwing money into the drain.
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#7 Giray Izcan

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:14 PM

Matt,
I agree with you. With film equipment, you have to know how to use a lightmeter. Many upcoming cinematographers got those monitors etc to tell them what to do... Well, it is a choice I guess. Also, with film cameras, you have to be able to get a decent lens to get decent pictures. Yeah, you need decent lenses with digital too, but at one point, not one lens will be able to achieve more than what a sensor is capable of. If you have master primes on af 100, you will be short changing those master primes. In sum, with digital, mostly the sensor then lens determines the image quality. And with film, lenses play the biggest role besides image steadiness etc..
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#8 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:04 PM

And yeah, anyone purchasing actual FILM equipment now would be crazy. Unless they know how to use it and what to do in post, it's throwing money into the drain.


What's wrong with learning film? I always got the impression that you were open minded about learning.

Josh,
As for film camera, yes you can buy a cp for that much money but with what lens? If you want the "modern" contrasty and sharp images, that angenieux 12-120 won't really cut it. Also, I suspect that you can get s16, working one anyway for that price. Obviously, you can make all those mods to make that cp more current. I shoot on NPR, and would take NPR or ACL ii over cp 16 any day. For that price range, you can even get an arri 2c, but it will be LOUD. I used to have a BL3, but those cost 4000+. I'll get one again one day. Anyways, I doubt that you have any desire to look into film, so you should go on vimeo.com and search those cameras to see some visual samples. Good luck with camera hunt.


The NPR and ACL tend to be broken down all over the place. I seldom find one that works as is. The CP16R has Arri adapters available that can use S and B mounts so you have a lot of options there. I dont know why everyone disses this camera. It is by far the cheapest 16 mm sync camera you can find and it takes 400' loads and can use Mitchell mags to boot! I intend on picking up a CP package at some point.

As far as the BL cameras, about two weeks ago I saw a sweet BL4 package on ebay that had 3 1000' and 3 400' mags, batteries, chargers, body, a bunch of accessories go for barely over $3K. I was angry that I didnt have money yet.
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#9 Geoff Howell

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:24 PM

+1 for the Panasonic AF100, or there's a ton of really good deals on Gh2's lately, or wait for the Black Magic Camera to start shipping.

P.S. the op didn't say what the camera was to be used for so film might not be practical
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#10 Matt Stevens

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

What's wrong with learning film? I always got the impression that you were open minded about learning.



I am! But you have to look at who is asking about this. The poster in question... no chance will he go that route. It would be foolish for him to do so. It took me well over a year of tinkering around and trying super8 with many cameras, stocks, etc., before I really knew what I was doing. Few have the patience. It's now a digital world. Ever more so with the loss of color reversal film stock. That stings.

I'm shooting a music video this weekend. In Super8! It's a damned miracle they went for it. But it is so so so hard to convince anyone to use film.
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#11 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

Well, Im glad you did go with film. What do you think? Are you glad you did? Do you wish you could go back and not have learned it? The fact that you shot a music video in S8 tells me that answer.

I realize there is ZERO chance this lad will choose film. But I had to throw it out there. Notice I first answered his question according to what he would like to hear (I do think its true that IF i were to shoot digital and IF I was stuck in his price point, the AF100 is the only camera I would ever even consider. I'd rather not shoot anything than use a t2i for instance.)

And as far as reversal, although it is cheaper for telecine and such, it is harder to nail exposure correctly than negative. The modern negative stocks are so forgiving that you'd have to be an imbecile to blow it out.
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#12 Matt Stevens

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

Very true about the negative stocks. But I really like reversal and have not had issues with it. When I shoot with it I am slow and make sure I have my exposure correctly. Then I pull the trigger. :)

I'm bringing six rolls to Vietnam in January (more if can find some cash laying around) where the crazy bright sun would give 200T fits. SE Asia is the perfect place to shoot 100D.

50D would be great too, but I am broke and simply cannot swing the purchase of any Pro8 50D cartridges at the moment.
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