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They said film was dying


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#1 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:47 AM

But apparently now you can pick up a S8mm camera along with a sweater:

http://www.urbanoutf...APARTMENT_MEDIA

and some cool mugs.

I guess this is kind of awesome, as it's opening up the format to a lot of new people. Many of whom, no doubt, will hate it, and a few of whom may well spark a new passion. For this is am truly excited; but at the same time, man it just seems weird to me to be shopping at urban outfitters for film and camera equipment.

Still, it's a Phila company so I'm a little excited about that. And who knows, maybe this'll be the next hip thing (though honestly, really jacking up the prices a bit...)
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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

$400 for a Canon 310XL is a bit cheeky, though.
As to dying, I think it's being murdered.
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#3 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:28 PM

S8 will never die. The guys that are diehard about that format (I love it but Im no die hard) would probably find a way to home spool it by cutting 35mm into 8mm widths and use modified hole punchers for spockets and put it into their soviet era refillable catridge. Seriously, Ive heard of some strange things from these s8 guys. It will never die.
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#4 Geoff Howell

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 04:38 PM

but sadly no readily available color reversal film to put in the bloody thing.
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#5 Matthias Greving

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 06:43 PM

There is a lot of color reversal film available. Just take a look at www.wittner-kinotechnik.de for example.
And other stocks will be available in the future.
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#6 David Cunningham

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 08:04 PM

but sadly no readily available color reversal film to put in the bloody thing.


Don't forget Spectra's (all be it overpriced) Velvia 50D reversal Super 8. Just picked myself up 2 rolls last week.

I'd be willing to bet Pro8mm will come out with one soon enough too, probably from Velvia. Maybe Velvia 100D.
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#7 Geoff Howell

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:48 AM

the thing is though how many of the hipsters buying that camera from Urban Outfitters are going to be aware of Spectra or Cinevia?
Until the supply of 100D drys up there are at least four or five well known shops near me that I can casually buy film over the counter at a decent price.

Also I'd be very very weary about being too dependent on Fuji continuing to supply the Raw materials,
A couple of years ago Cinevia and Retro8 in Japan were planing on selling single8 cartridges loaded with Provia 400X, apparently Fuji were more than happy to supply the film and everyone was happy; but right at the very last minute Fuji pulled out saying that they were concerned about the film jamming in cameras and having to deal with angry customers wanting their money back.

Cinevia/Retro8 unsuccessfully argued that:
A, the film would not jam as they had tested it thoroughly.
B, the cartridges wouldn't feature the word 'Fuji' on the labeling so any angry customers would be handled by Cinevia and Retro8

Anyway, it seems that Fuji moves in very mysterious ways and it's not totally inconceivable that they could pull the supply of Velvia and Fujichrome on a whim or worse still end production all together :blink:
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#8 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

Geoff's statement is the reason why film might possible die one day. Film shooters stress too much about the future instead of shooting now. Who cares is Fuji stops making it in the future? Shoot some film now. Maybe the world will come to an end friday...does that mean dont shoot film too?

Digital shooters, for all their evils, tend to worry about the equipment they have now and shoot now. Some do chase the latest and greatest camera (was Red, then Alexa, now people are waiting for BMCC) but many just go shoot.
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#9 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

Digital shooters, for all their evils..


Matthew, it's an industry, not a religion. Dividing the world into "film shooters" and "digital shooters" is completely out of touch with reality. Is forum member Richard Boddington a "digital shooter" now that he shot a movie on an Alexa? What would you call OP Adrian, or David Mullen, who regularly use digital cameras? The question is whether film can survive as a niche medium, maybe by exposing a new generation to its charms via a mainstream clothing chain. It's got nothing to do with whether "film shooters" (whoever the hell they are) go out and "shoot film now".

Personally I think this marketing strategy will be about as successful as the the LomoKino thing, which caused a great buzz and then faded away. Particularly given the prices they're charging.
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#10 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:27 AM

I see "digital shooters" as a paradigm, not as one who shoots a digital medium. Adrian, David, and Richard were trained in the discipline of film, even if they shoot digital as well. Its not a religion, sure, but I was making a point that so many people wank about film dying but wont pay for it. Simple economics is that if people arent spending money on something, people will cease to supply it. Simple as that. Perhaps your agitation with my post is due to your own willingness to embrace a technology that you know to be inferior? And I do feel that Mr. Boddington is being a bit of a sellout by shooting the Alexa but its his project, his budget, and he can do whatever he wants to. David and Adrian are different because they are largely limited to what their employers want to pay for. However, Im sure that both of them, if it were their choice, would select format based on what's right for the job, not based on whether a new camera is out that "I just gotta try!" At least that is what I would like to believe.
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#11 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:30 AM

Well; to be honest, sometimes there are cameras I just want to try ;) That's why I am so thankful to know a few very attractive men and woman who don't mind spending a day or so with me for a few beers to play 'round with a system a bit.
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#12 Matthew W. Phillips

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:55 AM

No problem Adrian. Of course all "experts" like to view as many tools of their trade as possible. However, if Im a producer, Ill be damned if I want someone experimenting on my dime. Tried and true is what I want. Just keeping it real.
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#13 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:05 AM

A readily available $50-$75 Canon 310XL (via eBay) for a whopping $395 from Urban Oufitters.

For that price I could easily purchase another Canon 1014XL-S or even a Braun Nizo 6080 kit.
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#14 Zac Fettig

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:09 AM

You know...

Urban Outfitters does a lot to make the arts a bit trendy. Like selling Holgas (at a huge markup though). Or those Super 35 cameras they sell. It's a toy, but I still want one.

It's a good thing. If you want reversal film to come back, this is the only way it'll happen. If only pros are using super-8, it'll be treated as a pro format. For example you get Kodak dropping Ektachrome and replacing it with Vision3 50D. Personally, I have no great love for Ektachrome, and I'm glad they did that. I find Vision 50D to be way more useful, especially when my workflow always includes a telecine. But I know a lot of people want color reversal. Personally, I want color reversal, but in R8, not S8.

And maybe they'll get it. If they sold a super 8 equivalent of the Lomography super-35 camera, with a viewer, there would be demand for super-8 reversal. Mainly because of the Urban Outfitter crowd. But I don't think selling $30 310 XLs for $400 will take the format very far. Even if you can get it with tiger print stickers.

That said, I wish they sold brand new super-8 cameras for around $50.
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#15 Geoff Howell

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:40 AM

true, I'm very interested in where Lomography is getting their 110 color film, some say it's repackaged stock from an Italian company others are saying it's produced on commission somewhere in China.
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#16 Mark Dunn

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:55 AM

The only way I would ever shoot Super-8 again is if I can get 50' of film that I can view straight out of the mailer for about £11, I suppose that's about $17 now, the price of my last cartridge of K40. That's not going to happen.
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#17 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:06 PM

As much as I dislike the 'lomography' school of shooting film stills, I am thankful that they have started this hipster trend which is bringing back options in shooting still photo film. I thought the LomoKino was pointless but then I wondered what if they branch out into Super8? If they can manage to generate a trend like they did with still film- it will really help create 'demand' and hence supply.

I don't mind my talentless friends shooting film as long as they are spending money on it and helping it find its place in this day and age. So if the $395 refurbished Canon 310XL gets bought a lot, these people will be googling for Super8 film!
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#18 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:44 PM

true, I'm very interested in where Lomography is getting their 110 color film, some say it's repackaged stock from an Italian company others are saying it's produced on commission somewhere in China.


Any more info on that produced in China rumour? Was that producing from scratch or just slit. perf, package...?
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#19 Zac Fettig

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

The packaging for their "Orca" film (the B&W) says made in china. No more details.

I doubt they're importing Italian or German raw stock. My guess is that it's a domestic Chinese film stock. Probably from the same supplier who does their other films, since you can buy the same red-tinted film in 110 that they sell in 35mm.

Heck, even North Korea produces their own film (in Super 8 too!).
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#20 Doug Palmer

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

North Korean Super-8 ?
Really ?!
I'd like to try some. Just might ease the current tension, at least among analogue film users.

Doug

http://www.filmisfine.co
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