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Problems with Orwo UN54 in Aaton XTR


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#1 Marc Roessler

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:18 AM

Hey everyone,

today I had a test shoot on Orwo UN54. It really gave me some trouble.
The camera was a well-maintained XTR Prod that happily ran any Kodak and Fuji material so far no matter how old it was (shrinkage). Loops are set perfectly, double checked all of this.

I used fresh UN54 material, ordered 3 weeks ago. The camera runs quite loud right from the start. After running for about 10 to 15 seconds, the camera looses the loop (clearly audible) at which point I switch it off of course. After taking off the mag, re-centering the loop and reattaching the mag the camera is good for another 10 to 15 seconds.

After some googling I found this thread (German, use google translate for a translation):
http://www.am-neudec...html?1281891954

Apparently others had this problem as well, with XTR, Minima and SR. Konvas 2M, Arri 16S, K3 and Filmo seemingly work fine. Can this be a problem with perforation tolerances being off? I know the Aaton claw slides in with a wedge shaped move, so could it be this mechanism relies on tight tolerances more than other (older) cameras?

This really sucks, I thought UN54 might be usable as a Plus-X replacement, but now I will probably have to go with Double-X I guess..

Any ideas what might have gone wrong here?

Greetings,
Marc
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#2 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

I had this same problem with my Aaton and I had the Orwo factory send some test film to JP at Aaton and he measured the stock and perf pitch, etc. Unfortunatley Orwo has decided to set their perforations to a slightly different pitch than the perf size and pitch the Kodak uses and it causes problems when going through high precision cameras like the LTR/XTR and with Pin-Reg cameras like Panavision and Arri 35mm. I think some kind of group effort needs to be made to urge the Orwo factory to set it's perf size and pitch to be compatible with standard Kodak perfs and thus all of the 16mm and 35mm cameras worldwide which operate on the Kodak standard.

_Rob-
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#3 Marc Roessler

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

Bummer.. how in the world can they get away with this??
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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:23 PM

And word, Rob, on how well it'll work on an SR series camera (SR3) ? I had been toying with the notion of shooting some B/W Sequences for an upcoming project and wanted to test out the Orwo for it. Else I suppose I'll roll some '13 and push.

Also no idea how/why they'd do that? seems very silly.
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#5 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:49 PM

I am not sure about the SR3 but it does give me some concern, I have talked to Rob Todd at Emerson about shooting some in a SR3 to test and I have talked to the US reps and the Orwo factory about this, if it were me I would want to make the film as compatible to all of the world's 16mm and 35mm cameras as possible.

-Rob-
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#6 Kip Kubin

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 11:49 PM

I've had no issues with the N74 on my XTR. Is that the same perf dementions? Was I just lucky?
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#7 dan kessler

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:26 AM

No personal experience with Orwo film, but very interested in this thread.
Looking through the link-referenced material and at Orwo's published specs,
I frankly don't see any deviations from standard pitch. Any more info on this?
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#8 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 11:10 AM

I was able to get a roll of N74 to go through my LTR fine and it looked great, I will be putting up a 2K data scan from Cinelab's new scanner this weekend. The Orwo stock is really beautiful and I think it is a small adjustment that the Orwo factory has to make to insure compatibility.

-Rob-
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#9 Marc Roessler

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

Robert, looking forward to that!
I think the N74 might be to grainy for me in S16 though (target format is 2K DCP).

I've sent mail to Orwo and I hope they can give me some more information on what's going on.

On a side note, for that film project I'm searching for two to three well stored 400' rolls of Plus-X as a replacement for the misbehaving UN54. If someone in Europe reading this has some for sale, let me know!

Greetings,
Marc
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#10 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:54 PM



Here is a 2K scan of some Orwo-74 I shot for a Music Video project, this was scanned on our new 4K DCS-Xena scanner at Cinelab and I put a very light grade on it and no noise reduction and compressed it for Vimeo as a 2048x1256 file.


-Rob-
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#11 David Cunningham

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:07 PM



Here is a 2K scan of some Orwo-74 I shot for a Music Video project, this was scanned on our new 4K DCS-Xena scanner at Cinelab and I put a very light grade on it and no noise reduction and compressed it for Vimeo as a 2048x1256 file.


-Rob-



Rob!

Looks great! Can't wait for this to be publicly available! Do you have pricing yet?

Dave
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#12 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:49 PM

We will have pricing on the Cinelab web site next week, both for direct to DPX sequences and for DPX and graded (quicktime, etc.) output. The Scanner is still in Alpha and the company has not yet announced it yet but there are now three placed. It is fully modular and allows for switching out the Camera-Link based imager for newer one's as they become available. The current setup is a 4K CCD and we are planning to upgrade that to a 29Mp 6.6K CCD when it becomes available. We are under a NDA agreement so I can't show photos of the machine yet and we are expecting a new gate/transport module in the next month or two plus some other transport refinements. Ultra-16mm will be supported sometime this month at up to 3K.

-Rob-
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#13 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:22 PM

Here is a roll of Orwo-54 developed as Reversal and scanned on the new scanner, the unsteadiness is in camera as the scanner has two registration pins for 16mm....



-Rob-
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#14 David Cunningham

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

Here is a roll of Orwo-54 developed as Reversal and scanned on the new scanner, the unsteadiness is in camera as the scanner has two registration pins for 16mm....



-Rob-


Hi Rob,

Do you do this processing of Orwo-54 as reversal at Cinelab? I might have to try it once I'm out of Tri-X and Plus-X
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#15 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

Yes we ran that as Reversal and have had a quite a few Orwo rolls come in to develop as both negative and as reversal. We are happy to support Orwo and Foma products at Cinelab and we hope whatever perf issues that Orwo is having will be fixed soon. Both stocks seem to run fine in cameras like my B&H Film 70DR and Bolex's but there are some problems with Aaton's and maybe the SR series.

-Rob-
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#16 David Cunningham

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:07 PM

Yes we ran that as Reversal and have had a quite a few Orwo rolls come in to develop as both negative and as reversal. We are happy to support Orwo and Foma products at Cinelab and we hope whatever perf issues that Orwo is having will be fixed soon. Both stocks seem to run fine in cameras like my B&H Film 70DR and Bolex's but there are some problems with Aaton's and maybe the SR series.

-Rob-



How about this Rob:

http://www.foto-r3.c...-15-metros.html

I've heard it can be processed as D-96 or D-76 with good results. I had emailed some with Brad Chandler at your office, and he said it should be possible, but never really confirmed that it can be done.

I'd be happy to be a guinea pig.

Dave
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#17 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:03 AM

Send it in and we will figure out how to run it!

-Rob-
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#18 David Cunningham

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:01 AM

Send it in and we will figure out how to run it!

-Rob-


Sweet! That's what I like to hear. :)
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#19 Robert Lewis

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:06 AM

How about this Rob:

http://www.foto-r3.c...-15-metros.html

I've heard it can be processed as D-96 or D-76 with good results. I had emailed some with Brad Chandler at your office, and he said it should be possible, but never really confirmed that it can be done.

I'd be happy to be a guinea pig.

Dave


How does this relate to either Aaton or Orwo?
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#20 David Cunningham

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

How does this relate to either Aaton or Orwo?


Sorry... was off topic. I got there because the thread kinda became about alternative B&W negative stocks. But, really not.
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