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Spider-Man 2 to be shot on film!

Is film redundant?

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#1 Keith Walters

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:07 AM

I got this from Reduser of all places, don't know how long the thread will stay up for :D

http://www.reduser.n...g-Film-not-Epic

The actual article:
http://www.slashfilm...al/#more-159868


Personally I had trouble staying awake through The Amazing Spider-Man, but that wasn't any fault of the cameras used, it was just another why-did-they-bother movie.

This is far from the first film, video, back-to-film, video, back-to-film etc cycle I've seen but it may be the last.

Ironically after all the Hoo-Ha about the "revolutionary" Genesis being used for Superman Returns 8 years ago, Superman The Man of Steel was also shot on film, plus the Batman films of course....
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#2 Freya Black

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

I got this from Reduser of all places, don't know how long the thread will stay up for :D

http://www.reduser.n...g-Film-not-Epic


So far that's a really intelligent thread given the context and title! I was surprised as it wasn't what I was expecting to find when I clicked on it! ;)

This is far from the first film, video, back-to-film, video, back-to-film etc cycle I've seen but it may be the last.

Ironically after all the Hoo-Ha about the "revolutionary" Genesis being used for Superman Returns 8 years ago, Superman The Man of Steel was also shot on film, plus the Batman films of course....


Yes! Someone mentioned 28 days later in another thread, and of course the director never shot on mini-dv again! I think that people get excited about the idea of trying out some new technology and sometimes if there seems to be something exciting going on around some technology they might even feel like they don't want to be left out.

These days you also have the thing of there being a lot of pressure to do things in 3d too.

The new film is being shot in Anamorphic 35mm, but I wonder if it wouldn't be better being shot in IMAX if they want to have a premium experience rather than worrying about 3d?

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#3 Vadim Bobkovsky

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:01 AM

Schwartzman is not involved with second one. Dan Mindel is DP, dude loves film. He praised Nolan for using IMAX large format cameras on TDKR, but they shoot 35mm on Spidey 2. I guess the idea of bigger format in celluloid is great on paper, until you begin to wrap your head around rigging that beast.
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#4 David J Paradise

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 01:37 PM

It will be interesting to see the cost considering the first one had a budget of $230M.
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#5 Keith Walters

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

So far that's a really intelligent thread given the context and title! I was surprised as it wasn't what I was expecting to find when I clicked on it!


I did a search on Jim Jannard's profile to see if he had any comment, and he hasn't posted there since Jan 5! Could this be why? :rolleyes:

These days you also have the thing of there being a lot of pressure to do things in 3d too.
Freya

For my money, the most convincing live action 3-D features I've seen were Captain America and The Avengers, and they were both shot flat and converted. The reality is, if you do it that way, just about the entire movie has to be shot Green-Screen, but if you're set up for it, it's not that big a deal.
Because a computer is doing the 3-D rendering, you're not stuck with the "walking cardboard cutout" syndrome that bedevils so many films shot using 3-D rigs. Basically, with Post-3D you get a second bite at the cherry.
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#6 Freya Black

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 03:26 PM

I did a search on Jim Jannard's profile to see if he had any comment, and he hasn't posted there since Jan 5! Could this be why? :rolleyes:


Naah! I don't think it's the kind of thing that would upset Jim really, but in the past there would have been other people who would jump on such a thread.

Ironically someone was just posting how red user isn't so "exciting" anymore these days. They seemed really disappointed. It was a bit of a shock for me as I have enough drama in my real life without anymore nonsense on internet forums but I guess there are a lot of people out there with "quiet lives" who get bored! lol!

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#7 Keith Walters

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:32 PM

So far that's a really intelligent thread given the context and title! I was surprised as it wasn't what I was expecting to find when I clicked on it! ;)
Freya


Yes, it contains a lot of solid information, the very thing that people would like to see on forums like this. (For example, I never knew about the Epic 20 minute black balance thing). But mark my words, that thread will either be closed or vanish entirely sometime soon. It's happened so many times before.

For posterity, I'd like to reproduce a couple of really informative replies:

(Normally, I would simply provide a link, but I'm afraid it's likely to go dead in the not too distant future :( )

Originally Posted by Paul Harb:
DOP's and Directors seem to like Alexa time and time again over Red. They seem to care less about higher resolution except for very specific things. It seems the Red is being used for VFX shots and where the cameras small form factor is the difference....not the image. Why is this in peoples opinions?

Reply by Ned Wilson
Where to start:

- A stop more in the highlights. That's a big deal. Less window treatment or less fill. Translates into crew, gear and time savings.
- Many DP's/Directors feel it has a wider color gamut. Less green bias.
- Less noise at higher ASA's saves time/money in lighting.
- Most TV production just shoot to SxS Pro Rez 444. Takes a step out of post transcoding or having to add a box. More money saved.
- Balances beautifully on shoulder with no rigging. More time / money saved on change over from support to handheld. Handheld is in just about every show these days.
- Fully budgeted shows use Fiz, Cinetape, AC's monitor, Zoom motors, etc. All can be powered from the Alexa body. I/O module does not.
- No 20 minute black balance at the start of the day. This is a killer as often the AC's have a pre-call because of that. Mo money.
- All the in/outs are integrated into the body. Less hassle.
- Alexa's have a reputation for being super reliable. Rarely do you have to reboot. I've never seen one just brick for no reason.
- Negligible fan noise in standby makes monitoring levels in rehearsal easier for sound. Epic's fan can be difficult in this respect
- Primary settings have external dedicated buttons. Easy to use. Can't be inadvertently knocked into a different spec. DP's love security.
- Eyepiece has and elegant and easy eyepiece leveler solution. This is vital especially if your operate with wheels.
- Most TV is 1080p deliverable and most movie theaters don't project much beyond that - so audience or producers don't perceive the 4k advantages

I still see Epic on commercials, videos and sometimes brought in for high speed work on narrative as a C body.
- Commercials / videos like to punch on 5k.
- transcoding a day or two's worth of dailies isn't as big a deal/cost as it is on a show or a feature.
- they do more high speed work
- small body is great for car mounts, jib work, steadicam, etc.

I'm pretty format agnostic and even more so now that I no longer own a package. While some say it's moving backwards from using the "the best" in the world to use anything but Epic, I personally believe the best depends on the requirements of the job. For most jobs I do, they don't exploit the best of the Epic's features so we use Alexa's mostly. Sometimes, I've used super 8 film cameras (loads of fun) because it's a special look. To say something's "the best" is like saying the best way to build a house is with carbon fiber not old dated stone.


From Ned Wilson
"- Most TV production just shoot to SxS Pro Rez 444. Takes a step out of post transcoding or having to add a box. More money saved."

From M. Most
This might be the case on some productions, but on "studio level" television series it is not the case, for four major reasons. First, the vast majority of series are cut on Avid, so the material needs to be transcoded to DNxHD (usually DNx36) for fluidity in editing. Second, most shows are not willing to provide enough SAN storage in editorial to accommodate the approximately 4TB per episode that is required for the Prores444 files. Third, most shows record Alexa material using LogC, which no editor or producer working in television series is willing to look at through the editorial process. And finally, dailies on those shows require both double system sound sync and multiple deliverables uploaded to different places, some of which are done for every shot and some of which are done only for select takes. These kind of complications almost always dictate that the material go through a dailies process, either near set or at a facility (although it's increasingly not in facilities).

Your comment about saving time is valid, but not in the way you implied. It's valid because on most dailies systems, the Alexa files can be processed to multiple deliverables much faster than Epic files, even given Rocket support. On a typical Colorfront system, for instance, Epic files will process to multiple deliverables at a slightly slower rate than real time (i.e., <24fps) with Rocket support. Alexa Prores files, however, can be processed at anywhere from about 48fps to 65fps, depending on how many deliverables are being made and of what type. So the step is not eliminated, but it is a lot faster.

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#8 Keith Walters

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:33 AM

Naah! I don't think it's the kind of thing that would upset Jim really, but in the past there would have been other people who would jump on such a thread.

Ironically someone was just posting how red user isn't so "exciting" anymore these days. They seemed really disappointed. It was a bit of a shock for me as I have enough drama in my real life without anymore nonsense on internet forums but I guess there are a lot of people out there with "quiet lives" who get bored! lol!
Freya

Aha; it appears he's been busy playing with his new Dragon camera!
http://www.reduser.n...l=1#post1149314

So far all I've seen is a couple 6144 x 3160 JPEGs of a lizard, (bearded dragon, groan...) but that is pretty impressive for something shot at about 60 fps.

It's not "10 times the resolution of 1080p" it's actually the square root of 10 times (about 3.16), but that's not bad.
If you had a screen that could display that resolution directly, you could fit Forty Eight 720 x 480 NTSC DVD movies on it, all playing at once in full resolution! (Or about 200 in VHS quality). If somebody could come up with a 200-channel simultaneous tuner, you'd never need to miss a thing :rolleyes:
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#9 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 05:31 AM

Keith; i could see certain government agencies being interested in that tuner, should we ever live in a Kubrickian Clockwork world.


also side bar. I am astounded how non-pissed-off all the red users are that they have to keep buying into all the new red cameras as they come out because their 50K investment in their last camera is now not good enough. It's almost as if Red has just up and stolen all the apple fanatics out there... which may be why apple stock is ticking lower... global conspiracy perhaps?
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#10 Freya Black

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 04:20 PM

Keith; i could see certain government agencies being interested in that tuner, should we ever live in a Kubrickian Clockwork world.


I would totally love one of those, and a super furry white cat too!

also side bar. I am astounded how non-pissed-off all the red users are that they have to keep buying into all the new red cameras as they come out because their 50K investment in their last camera is now not good enough. It's almost as if Red has just up and stolen all the apple fanatics out there... which may be why apple stock is ticking lower... global conspiracy perhaps?


Definitely think that Red have taken certain things right out of Apples book!
I think Apples stock is ticking lower tho because there comes a point where things have to have peaked, and Apple have been scary sucessful lately! :)

Freya
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#11 Keith Walters

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 09:25 PM

Keith; i could see certain government agencies being interested in that tuner, should we ever live in a Kubrickian Clockwork world.

If the camera had an MPEG4 live output, I know plenety of organizations that would be extremely interested...

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#12 Ravi Kiran

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:59 PM

To play devil's advocate, if the plan is to convert it to 3D anyways, why not just shoot it in 3D? And does anamorphic complicate the 3D conversion process?


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