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New Super 8 Home Scanner

Does Negatives!

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#1 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:02 AM

http://www.moviestuff.tv/

 

This is a pretty exciting piece of equipment for the S8 community, the first of it's kind. They recently added an option for scanning color negatives (which will still require desired correction) so this could be the replacement for the projector when all thats left now are 3 awsome color negative stocks. Even if it's out of your price range, they sold quite a few... should be some folks doing scans for a lot cheaper than pro houses-


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#2 Geoff Howell

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 11:21 AM

I was quite excited about this

however, I'm not sure why they are so reticent to put decent resolution samples on their website, the sample clips they've uploaded are really terribly encoded so it's impossible to get any sort of feel for what the machine is capable of.     


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#3 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:33 PM

This is why Kodak needs to support their remaining labs better. Labs need to offer do it yourself transfer rooms for the filmmaker that is on a budget and would rather spend an hour transfering one or two rolls for 30 bucks, themselves, versus being forced into a half hour or one hour transfer minimum at a couple hundred dollars an hour price.

 

Chipping away at how labs stay in business doesn't necessarily help the super-8 filmmaker because NO LAB survives just off of their processing services.


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#4 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:20 PM

Alex, i think a machine like this is a good start. Your right about pro telecine, they are geared for pro end productions. $300-$450 for 8 rolls of film is a lavish luxury to most DIY S8 users. The 3 V3 negs give S8 more versatility than ever, but i fear it won't last long if that telecine link isn't bridged. Once I get my unit dialed in, i'm willing to do low cost transfers.


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#5 Zac Fettig

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 08:32 AM

If anyone has one of these, please post sample clips! Especially for neg. I'm dying to see what end user's results from this are. I think a lot of people are.


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#6 Joel Pierre

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

http://www.moviestuff.tv/

 

 

“… with no sprockets, no advance claw, no capstan, no pinch roller, no belts, and no gears…”
 
What is the secret ? How does it work ?

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#7 Mitchell Perkins

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:01 PM

“… with no sprockets, no advance claw, no capstan, no pinch roller, no belts, and no gears…”
 
What is the secret ? How does it work ?

 

I think they use sensors to.....sense the perfs. But yeah, that still leaves the question of how it advances at all...

 

If you have a DIY telecine you can put a turquoise filter in the light path to deal w/the orange mask, then flip in your NLE. The Moviestuff Retro8 uses its camera's firmware for this, which is probably better. ..tho not as cheap as a bit of gel.

 

Make sure to bring the neg in washed out, or milky, so you can control contrast. It helps if the camera used has a white balance function - if you can get pure whites, you'll have pure blacks.

 

The big thing with negs is they scratch so easily and attract dust so efficiently (!) I use a "wetgate" - black velvet moistened with 99% Isopropyl. Does the trick. Roger of Movistuff informs me they do not have a wetgate on there yet, but there are threaded utlility holes for mounting a wetgate unit of your own design. Since the design will amount to a clip to hold some fabric, I believe that was good thinking on their part, to leave it to the client - every little thing you don't add, keeps the cost down.

 

Mitch


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#8 Zac Fettig

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:17 PM

It (most likely) uses a servo motor attached to one of the pulleys, and counts on friction between the o-rings and the film to move. I'd assume they use an edge detection routine off the camera to find the sprocket holes. It's a headache to program, but costs nothing in production. Plus, it lets you remove the jitter in software fairly easily. Important since the unit doesn't have any registration.

 

Firmware is free. Costs nothing. Gels cost money.

 

A wetgate would be nice. A 16mm version would be nicer. I assume the design is scalable, and he'll release a 16mm version for more $$ when the bugs are 100% worked out. Just speculation on my part, though.


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#9 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 05:31 PM

He mentioned a 16mm version in the future.. I know there are 16mm versions of all the WP setups they have offered so i wouldn't be surprised. As far as the registration, i hear that it centers each frame within a very tight range, so even if you have some jitter it should come out pretty solid on the scan.


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#10 Mitchell Perkins

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:56 AM

Firmware is free. Costs nothing. Gels cost money.

 

"How much for a 1"X1" square of your finest turquoise gel, good sir?"

 

.....swatch-book


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#11 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

"If you have a DIY telecine you can put a turquoise filter in the light path to deal w/the orange mask, then flip in your NLE. The Moviestuff Retro8 uses its camera's firmware for this, which is probably better. ..tho not as cheap as a bit of gel."

 

I guess they tried gels but it was cutting too much light since the unit uses a fast shutter.


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#12 Mitchell Perkins

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:20 PM

"If you have a DIY telecine you can put a turquoise filter in the light path to deal w/the orange mask, then flip in your NLE. The Moviestuff Retro8 uses its camera's firmware for this, which is probably better. ..tho not as cheap as a bit of gel."

 

I guess they tried gels but it was cutting too much light since the unit uses a fast shutter.

 

According to Roger, they didn't go the filter route for precisely the reason you have given.

 

Thinking more on the wetgate, I wonder how the film-transport will respond to Iso-slicked film. Obviously it's not an issue with sprockets. Maybe some solution less slippery than Iso?

 

But OTOH, some minor dust and base scratches are only an issue if you are doing narrative with the Super8 negs - art films and home movies, not so much....IMHO

 

Mitch


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#13 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

I'm thinking of investing in a set of partical transfer rollers from Kodak. Not to run with the unit, just a clean and prep setup. Anyone have experience with these?


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#14 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:58 AM

Alex, i think a machine like this is a good start. Your right about pro telecine, they are geared for pro end productions. $300-$450 for 8 rolls of film is a lavish luxury to most DIY S8 users. The 3 V3 negs give S8 more versatility than ever, but i fear it won't last long if that telecine link isn't bridged. Once I get my unit dialed in, i'm willing to do low cost transfers.

 

Maybe once you set up your unit you could offer the closest lab to you, your transfer system as a rental. Maybe one day a week you come in, set it up, and supervise do it yourself transfers, you split what you make with the lab.

 

The idea being the lab can accommodate filmmakers who just a have a small amount of film to transfer and even if you just 250 bucks for a days work ,that is still 125 dollars in your pocket and likewise for the lab.


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#15 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 12:36 PM

Maybe once you set up your unit you could offer the closest lab to you, your transfer system as a rental. Maybe one day a week you come in, set it up, and supervise do it yourself transfers, you split what you make with the lab.

 

The idea being the lab can accommodate filmmakers who just a have a small amount of film to transfer and even if you just 250 bucks for a days work ,that is still 125 dollars in your pocket and likewise for the lab.

 Movie Stuff is also renting units, so renting is prohibited. I am hoping to offer scans to local film makers (there are a lot of them here) in my basement studio.


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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:23 PM

 Movie Stuff is also renting units, so renting is prohibited. I am hoping to offer scans to local film makers (there are a lot of them here) in my basement studio.

 

What does that mean "renting is prohibited"? If you buy a unit you should be able to do whatever you want with it, no?


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#17 Will Montgomery

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:25 PM

What does that mean "renting is prohibited"? If you buy a unit you should be able to do whatever you want with it, no?

If there is software involved, then the license can be written to not allow rental. Remember, you never actually "own" software or music for that mater, just the license to use it in certain expressed ways. Not sure if you could legally prohibit rental of the hardware itself however.


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#18 Mark Sperry

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

Does anybody have any real time experience with this or the software?  What kind of quality can one expect?  It sounds like it's basically delivering 'one light' xfers, but is it possible to do it timed?  I do weddings and this could be a good investment...


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#19 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 12:15 PM

Does anybody have any real time experience with this or the software?  What kind of quality can one expect?  It sounds like it's basically delivering 'one light' xfers, but is it possible to do it timed?  I do weddings and this could be a good investment...

The first units aren't delivered yet, i know they upgraded some features so there might be some exposure options now? i know they added an option for a bright setting to help scan under exposed film whuch is common in a lot of old home movies.


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#20 Chris Burke

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 03:05 PM

my understanding, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that it only outputs 8-bit jpeg sequences and video, they call it 24 bit, 8 for each color. for the mom and pop transfer this is fine, but for the do it your self shooter, we want more color depth and resolution.  I know that they are trying to keep the cost down, but with color neg, 10-bit does make a difference.

 

 The other downside is the framing. In HD mode, you get pillar boxed output. Why not a high res 4:3 sensor that will capture full res(2k or 1920 x 1440) of the full frame? This is always a compromise, either pillar box or cropped top and bottom. This way you wouldn't need optical zoom or anamorphic de-squeeze, you have high enough resolution that you can do it all in post.  all in all though, it is very promising and will probably play a part in lowering transfer prices overall.


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