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#1 Wiki Park

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:20 PM

i currently own an Aaton LTR-x. I was told from the person I purchased it that it was both super-16 and regular 16 compatible. However, at the moment, the camera is super-16 and when i took it to Abel-cine, they told me that the gate cannot be changed to regular 16, so i would be shooting full frame anyways, even when using a regular 16 lens. I am currently prepping for a short film which I would like to shoot regular 16 because I will be editing on film and finally print on regular 16. My question is, in order to derive a regular 16 image in printing by cropping, would I need a groundglass that is centered for regular16? The groundglass I have now is only super-16, but would anyone have an idea for me to mark the groundglass so I can anticipate the extra space which will be cropped out? I know its not as simple as framing the 4:3 frame in the center of the 16:9 because the extra image is only on one side where the regular 16 perfs would be. But is there a way to know exactly where the 4:3 frame should be in order to be printed for that format? Right now I'm guessing that in the viewfinder, it would be something like the very right frame line to the inner most line on the left, but this may be the opposite(outer most line on the left to the inner most line on the right). Any information would be greatly appreciated. 


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#2 Wiki Park

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:58 PM

any thoughts or 'try this' would be greatly appreciated. 


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#3 Wiki Park

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:08 AM

I hope my original post makes sense..please let me know if it doesn't 


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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:40 AM

With Aatons the usual method for shooting standard 16 is to re-align the optical centre from the Super 16 set up to a Standard 16 one. This involves adjusting the lens mount, moving the ground glass sideways and shifting the viewfinder. It's not a hugely complex operation, but you need a special tool for changing the lens mount. This does require your ground glass have standard 16 frame marking in the centre.

 

You may find there are vertical 3 x 4 marking in your ground glass. These won't be to one side, but ether side of the centre line.


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#5 Wiki Park

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 11:21 PM

if i used the TV safe markings and frame for that can I have the regular 16 frame derived in the printing process or would it be offcenter? 


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#6 Wiki Park

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:10 AM

anybody? this is a very rudimentary question. Why is this forum so partial towards which topics interest everyone. I feel like every post deserves attention and anyone that can help should offer their knowledge, however uninteresting it may be to them, 


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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:40 AM

If you don't shift the centre of the ground glass you'll have to frame to one side.

 

If you're framing to one side, you'll have to put a temporary frame marking onto the ground glass. Ask Abel-cine if they'll take out the ground glass and draw a frame edge for you and then replace it..

 

Does your Aaton allow you to shift your ground glass to the side? This enables you to centre it onto the regular 16 frame. You'll see a screw in a slot that allows you to do this.

 

Which of these screens is closest yours?

 

http://www.google.co...TqfJpdjttGcOAxg


Edited by Brian Drysdale, 12 May 2013 - 02:41 AM.

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#8 Steve Switaj

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:52 PM

I once owned one of these cameras. As I recall, it was a great little machine. I liked it a lot better than the ubiquitous SR's.

 

 

That being said, I have to get in the way-back machine to remember much about how to use the thing.

 

If I recall correctly, they were really easy to switch between regular and super-16, thogh realistically, nobody did that.

 

If you have a S16 gate you're OK for both formats, there's no reason to try to switch back to a regular gate.

 

The difference between Reg16 and S16 is that he S16 frame is somewhat wider - stretching into the space where the second set of perfs would be in Reg16, and slightly taller - there's very little frameline between S16 frames.

 

Additionally, since S16 frames are centered differently on the film, so you have to shift the lenses over a millimeter or two so they're back over the frame center or zooms will drift and wide lenses will keystone.

 

But you don't have to change the gate, if you shoot Reg16 with a S16 gate the gate will be wider than necessary but you'll just expose some “overspill” image onto areas of the frame that will be ignored later anyhow.

 

As for recentering the lens (again, it's been a while) I recall that you removed the lens mount (there are about 4 screws on it), flipped it upside down, and reinstalled it. The lens mount and body were machined with a few millimeters of eccentricity built in, so when you rotated the mount it shifted over into the right position.

 

A similar mechanism is used on contemporary Arri's to convert from academy to super-35

 

you could tell at a glance which way the mount was set, if the locking ear was on the operator side of the camera it was set for regular 16 centering, if the locking ear was on the off side of the camera it was set for super16 centering.

 

The viewfinder also had to slide over to match. If you look carefully, you'll see that there are elongated slots where the finder mounts, and the recess in the body that takes the finder is 2mm wider, allowing the finder to slide back and forth.

 

 

This gap is always on the same side as the lens mount ear.

 

 

My camera had a small, L-shaped key that filled this slot. You moved it from side to side when you moved the finder.
 

 

I'm fuzzier on the ground glass. I don't remember if you replaced the glass or just slid it back and forth.

 

I think I might have a pdf of the LTR manual somewhere where I can dig it up. If you need one, PM me with an e-mail address, I'll send you a copy.


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#9 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 15 July 2013 - 03:29 AM

 

If I recall correctly, they were really easy to switch between regular and super-16, thogh realistically, nobody did that.

 

 

I used to switch from regular to Super 16 between jobs during the change over over period between 4x3 and 16:9 in television and Super 16 blow up shoots. Once TV changed to 16:9, there was little reason to do so.  


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