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Newbie looking for guidance.


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#1 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:26 PM

Hi, I've been very interested in cinematography for quite some time now, but I don't know what kind of dslr I should buy. I've been looking at the Canon T3i and the T4i, but I don't really know which one would be better. So I'm just looking for help as to which one would be better for filming, like which has better quality and whatnot. Oh, and other suggestions for a dslr would be much appreciated as well. Thanks in advance :)


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#2 Paul Bartok

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

These kind of questions get asked all the time, you can easily find reviews and discusions out there on which is best for your video needs.

It all depeneds on your budget if your thinking long term go with a 5D MKIII (has clean hdmi output now), And make sure you have a good understanding of how cameras and light work.

 

You probably want to factor in accessories into your budget, lenses, support and rails, follow focus, tripod and one of the best tools for a Cinematographer is a Lightmeter.

This can all easily range from a couple of hundred to thousands of dollars, but probably the T4i it's newer advanced features make it a better choice over the T3i in my opinion 


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#3 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:09 AM

Thanks Paul, I'll surely take the 5D MKIII into consideration, and thanks for the advice on all those accessories.


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#4 Giray Izcan

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:48 AM

You should consider Panasonic gh2 or 3. People say those have true hd resolution vs barely hd of that on Canon's
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#5 Giray Izcan

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 10:49 AM

I meant barely hd if that on Canons. Sorry I'm using my phone to type.
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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:13 AM

I am a big fan of my GH2; primarily because, well, i can throw whatever glass I want on it with an adapter. There is a problem getting wide lenses for it, as it's a smaler sensor-- but that's not a super limitation. Of late, I've been sticking primarily on a 24mm lens on her, and quite enjoying it.


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#7 Giray Izcan

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

Adrian,
As everyone says, gh2s are actually 1080 right? I know Canons are supposed to be 1080, but aren'.
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#8 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

I've never had reason nor want to actually look at resolution charts on the GH or the Canons, sufficient to say that it feels sharper and truer in resolution than does any canon I've shot on-- so much so that I try to avoid shooting it w/o older lenses to help soften it a bit. However, for myself, I almost always turn the sharpness down on all digital systems Gh2 included.


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#9 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:25 PM

That GH2 does seem nice, but I'm leaning a bit more towards a canon for the wide variety of lenses


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#10 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

Recent developments in raw recording software for the Canon EOS series may significantly alter this situation; especially if you want to use the windowed modes on GH2 or GH3 for small-coverage lenses.


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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 07:53 AM

Recent developments in raw recording software for the Canon EOS series may significantly alter this situation; especially if you want to use the windowed modes on GH2 or GH3 for small-coverage lenses.

 

Is that my cue? ;)

 

http://www.redsharkn...canon-eos-dslrs

 

I have to say, I've been really surprised at how well the panasonic cameras have held up against this quantum leap for the canon. If you aren't going to go with the Canon 5D Mark III tho, I think it is worth considering the panasonics. :)

 

Freya


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#12 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:41 AM

The new canon EOS developments are, as ever with independently-developed software, not well described or documented.

 

Does it solve the aliasing problem? How does the windowing work?


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#13 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

I've decided to do a bit more research, and the 2 cameras that I'm really considering are the Panasonic Lumix GH2 and the Canon T3i, so what do you guys think?


Edited by Justin Cabacungan, 18 May 2013 - 11:02 AM.

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#14 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:32 AM

GH2; but as an owner I'm biased.

 

In truth though I say this because you can load the hacks and there are many. I am very happy with FlowMotion 2 which really nicely deals with macroblocking and the like and gives me rather consistient bit-rates without being overkill.

Also the camera gives a lot of control w/o the need for magic lantern being installed.

Also it records AVCHD which is a lot easier to deal with, I find, than h.264 (log and transfer in FCP and native in Premier Pro. Haven't used AVID with it). No need to transcode it before you import it, you can actually log it like a normal tapeless camera.

Also with adapters you can use pretty much any lens you want.

 

The biggest drawback is the lack of wide lenses on the system. You can of course buy wide lenses for it; but they can get pricey (unless you go Rokinon). Or you can use an inverse teleconverter (wide angle adapter) to get yourself back a bit. This is what i do when needed and yes it eats some stop and softens the image a bit, but it's really little concern for me.

The biggest issue would be finding a GH2. They can be hard to come by and often with a very large markup. I put up an ad on craigslist to get mine.

Also there is a weird thing with the LCD shifting gamma when recording. It's not on the actual footage it just seems to be an LCD thing and more noticeable in low-light. There is a work around, dealing with lowering the contrast and sat of the LCD on the camera which is what I do. Also the touch screen can be a bugger on occasion, but nothing super major.

 

What else.... get extra batteries, get the panasonic ones. that's 'bout it.

I'm happy with it.

 

If you look on my reel, off of my website, there is currently 1 shot with the GH2 on there, a woman in the desert sniffing a plant thing-- 1:54 into the reel. It's GH2, FlowMotion, no lighting at all with a crappy old promaster 28~70 2.8 zoom which is all dirtied up and a custom cut filter in the front (also I think NDIR1.5). Clip is uncorrected, exactly as it came off of the camera and it's what sold me on keeping it once i bought it for this webseries i'm on (that clip was a music video/camera test I did for a friend)


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#15 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:02 PM

Yeah I think I might go with the GH2, however what lens do you recommend? And is the kit lens good enough to shoot decent HD video?


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#16 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 02:06 PM

I haven't used the kit lens, as mine didn't come with it. I typically stick with primes anyway. I'd look into getting some Rokinons, especially the 8mm and 14mm to get yourself wide (i'd get them nikon with a nikon adapter, which is cheap) and then fill out the rest of the set with nikon mount lenses. I like the Nikon "e" series lenses quite a lot and use them often.

 

For myself on my GH2, since I had to put the package together quickly and cheaply, I am primarily using a 24mm Sigma lens, it's a F2.8 and I rather like it. It was about $20 used from BH, and it lives on the camera. I augment with a 43~86mm Nikon small zoom which I usually use on my Fm, but it's an ok lens. I also use a 50mm E Series a good deal.
 


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#17 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:04 AM

Okay, so I've been looking at my price range, and I'm starting to drift from the GH2 and head more towards the Nikon D5100 and the Sony SLT-A37.. not entirely sure which one though..


Edited by Justin Cabacungan, 19 May 2013 - 02:04 AM.

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#18 Justin Cabacungan

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

I'm also taking the canon t3i into consideration, so I'll make a choice between the t3i, the A37, and the D5100, but before I decide, I also want to know whether i should buy a dslr or a camcorder, since I've heard that camcorders are generally better for filmmakers.


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#19 Freya Black

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:56 PM

The new canon EOS developments are, as ever with independently-developed software, not well described or documented.

 

Does it solve the aliasing problem? How does the windowing work?

 

Yes I wish I could find out more about it and it's all really Alpha at the moment.

The articles on stuff like this are loads harder to write than on other things because I end up having to try and check every little thing and track down all the info and confirm things for definite. Takes me like literally 10 times longer!

 

It definitely doesn't solve the aliasing problem. (or the jello... Yikes!)

 

...I would sooooo love to know how the windowing works! They are using "DMA cropping routines" which to me implies a crop, which would also make sense as it's raw and it seems like it would be difficult, tho I'm sure not impossible, to scale the raw files. You could line skip I guess. I'd really like to know more about it because I've had people tell me, "no you can definitely use this full frame" but I have no idea if this is just confused information from confused people and so far I've been unable to get clarification on if that is true!

 

I did a round up on different videos' with a lot more info about workflow and stuff, but if you find anything out about how it is handling the sensor windowing then please let me know!

 

Heres my round up:

 

http://www.redsharkn...-video-round-up

 

Freya


Edited by Freya Black, 19 May 2013 - 07:56 PM.

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#20 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:54 PM

I don't know how the EOS cameras are laid out internally and I hate to speculate, but "DMA cropping routines" suggest they're selectively reading a chunk of image out of a frame buffer, which is something you could reasonably expect to do with a moderately smart DMA controller. This would allow, in effect, cropping, for no CPU time. I strongly suspect that the CPU (whatever a "DIGIC" is) on an EOS camera is not adequate to scale an image at full sensor resolution in realtime. That being the case, if they're doing scaling, they're doing it by subpicking the sensor, whether that's done in the sensor hardware itself, or as part of a particularly showy bit of DMA.

 

Regardless, the details of the hardware, while diverting, aren't really the big issue. Someone needs to shoot some tests.


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