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Beaulieu 4008 ZM II... NIGHTMARE!!!

Beaulieu Super 8 4008 ZM II Film Camera Problems eBay Nightmare Jammed

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#1 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:12 AM

ARGH!!!  :o 

 

 

 

Well, my colleague Andy only paid £109 GB Pounds plus shipping via eBay for a cosmetically fine Beaulieu 4008 ZM II but I also purchased a new cell, a grip/handle and charger at over £100 GBP.

After shooting two test carts without any problems (other than feeling a little odd to hold it) the whole camera now seems to have seized up and yet it was sold as tested and fully functional.

By all accounts, I'm looking at somewhere between £200 to £300 for a service/repair plus the shipping/customs charges on top of that.

So I've asked the seller to kindly refund £50 (and I'll keep the two Tri-X carts that came with it) and then the Beaulieu can sit on the shelf as an expensive paperweight for now.

 

I really do hope that the seller accepts this? I fully appreciate it was cheap to start with but I will push for a possible return and a full refund otherwise. As it's all so disappointing and I've already given Andy back his £123.45 in full.

 

 

Am I being fair on the seller and will it even be worth even trying to get this Beaulieu fixed later on?

Bill


Edited by Bill Rodgers, 05 June 2013 - 06:15 AM.

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#2 David Cunningham

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:05 AM

Bill,

 

Can you describe the "seize" condition.  Does it do anything?  Maybe a youtube video?

 

Dave 


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#3 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:22 AM

I'm heading home to London and it's in Shoreham-by-Sea.

 

It's motor seems to need lubrication? Basically it judders for a few seconds and then totally stops. At first I thought it was the old battery but the new cell has the same results too!  :(


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#4 David Cunningham

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:45 AM

Does it do this without film in it?


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#5 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 08:00 AM

Not quite so badly but it still jams. This is with loose carts of Tri-X, not tightly wound 100D fresh from the packet.  :unsure:


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#6 Will Montgomery

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:23 AM

I understand the frustration. But I would say that investing £200 to £300 to get it fixed and running smoothly would still be worth it. These cameras need tender love and care and regular maintenance to perform at their best. Björn Andersson in Sweden has worked on two of my cameras and they are better than new now.

 

Almost ANY Beaulieu you buy will require (or least should have) a proper looking over and lubrication so don't feel too bad. You got a great deal on the camera and when you get it fixed you'll have one of the best Super 8 cameras you can get in perfect shape.


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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 12:23 PM

Fully tested for most sellers means they put film in the camera and the camera transported the film with no apparent problem, some don't even put film in the camera.  One way you could have cause is if the seller actually sent the camera in for a service estimate, refused the estimate, then sold it on ebay as working. But finding that out could be next to impossible.

 

If the camera broke down relatively quickly after receiving it (within a month?) perhaps the seller would agree to a partial refund of the sale price once you produce an actual receipt showing the repair work has been done and paid for. That is one negotiating position that might be reasonable.

 

Keep in mind that a beaulieu camera that needs servicing still has a baseline value. If the ebay auction sale price was at the baseline value, then you would not have cause in my opinion.

 

Baseline value is subjective.  It could the difference in cost between a camera that is serviceable and is actually serviced and put back in good shape and what the selling price is, plus an additional intrinsic value added in as well for merely existing as a brand.

 

So if a camera sells for 300 bucks while being presented as being in working condition, but needs a 250 dollar repair after a relatively short period of time, the baseline for that camera could be double the difference, so 50 bucks plus another 50 bucks, aka a 100 dollar baseline value, but that is subjective.

 

Or another way to determine baseline value is to price out what a camera that has just been serviced is "worth", then subtract what the repair costs to get the camera into that condition, than add another 20 to 200 bucks to that amount depending on the actual recognized popularity of that particular camera.  


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#8 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 02:10 PM

Well, I asked for a £59 GB Pounds partial refund; as it's only had two test carts of Tri-X run through it before it started playing up on a third cart.

 

 

What with the added expense of a brand new cell, grip and charger, I was now happy to pay £50 for the two old Tri-X carts that came with the camera (not the carts I shot) plus the original £14.45 shipping expense.

I thought that was fair and I've already returned Andy his own investment in good faith (he wanted me to shoot something for him on it at 70fps).

 

I honestly felt that was a fair proposal but the seller seems to think he doesn't have to refund me in any way whatsoever. So I'm not sure how to proceed now. :unsure:


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#9 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:25 PM

Private sellers don't refund that often or so easily. In some countries business sellers have some more obligations.

If you got it from Oeyhausen Germany you are fried. Although he is a business seller and German authorities are not so forgiving.

 

You better claim through Paypal or eBay. Either it is fully undo the deal and send back all or no undo. Taking parts of the deal and make up your own estimates is hardly a concept which will stand.

 

The obligations you had to third parties have no meaning to the deal or duties of the seller.


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#10 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

Private sellers don't refund that often or so easily. In some countries business sellers have some more obligations.

If you got it from Oeyhausen Germany you are fried. Although he is a business seller and German authorities are not so forgiving.

 

You better claim through Paypal or eBay. Either it is fully undo the deal and send back all or no undo. Taking parts of the deal and make up your own estimates is hardly a concept which will stand.

 

The obligations you had to third parties have no meaning to the deal or duties of the seller.

 

And you are dealing with a seller who sold it to Andy???  Andy should file the complaint. No seller is going to discuss with a third party.


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#11 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:25 PM

Andy just handed me the cash, it wasn't his eBay account (he doesn't have one).

 

So I'm dealing directly with the seller. :rolleyes:


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#12 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 09:44 PM

Well Bill, unfortunately the camera was working when you received it, and I don't think you can expect to buy a fully serviced one for what you paid. In all fairness to the seller, you can't blame them if it stopped working after a couple of carts. It sort of comes with the territory when dealing with vintage photographic equipment. Often these things sit in a case for years, when they get fired up again they seem to work for a while, until the dried up lubricants, corroded contacts or brittled plastic components cause a failure.

 

You have some experience working on other cameras if I recall? Why not open her up and see what you can do. I've worked on a couple of 4008s and found them much simpler to open and operate on than other high end S8 cameras like Canons. Being able to remove the lens is quite an advantage in that respect. If you're into refurbishing S8 cameras it's probably a good experience to have a go at a Beaulieu. The mirror/variable shutter mechanism is a marvellous little design.


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#13 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:31 AM

Considering it doesn't seem to run without a cartridge either there is likely more to it than 40 year old dried grease.

But I would check it out myself first too :) Opening the left side istn't too complicated and quickly gives an insight into the condition of the machine.

 

Maybe check the diagnosis in the 4008 repair manual. It should indicate if it is selfservicable.

I would send it to Bernie of super16inc.com if needed though.

Considering exchangerates and service return time.


Edited by Andries Molenaar, 06 June 2013 - 01:33 AM.

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#14 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 04:47 AM

Any diagrams or videos on how to pop open the left hand side of the camera?

I could give it a go, as I never mind taking a sneaky peek! :)


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#15 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:10 AM

There's a free service manual available at the apecity site but it does require some deciphering:

http://www.apecity.c...vice_manual.pdf

 

If someone is willing to cover the postage costs and send me their faulty 4008 I'd be happy to document a dismantle/service procedure and post it on my blog (http://cinetinker.blogspot.com.au/). I have a soft spot for Beaulieus, and they're terribly photogenic.  B)  

 

It won't be a Bjorn service (I don't have parts for a start) and I may not be able to resurrect the patient, but the two I have worked on both came good and I know a thing or two about servicing cameras.  :)   

 

I'm rather far from most of you, but for Australian folk a camera service for the price of local return postage would be a pretty good deal.

 


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#16 Matt Stevens

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:22 PM

It worked when purchased therefore it was as described. This is just how it is with old cameras. I purchased a Nikon R10 that worked fantastic for a few cartridges and then it just died. It became a paperweight. The other two Nikons I owned never gave me trouble. I had some Canons that died almost immediately, but my 1014 XL-S is awesome. 

 

Because of the current situation with film i may abandon super8 sometime in 2014. There is only so long this niche of the niche format will survive. :(


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#17 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

I'm building quite a Super 8 camera graveyard and I don't want this 4008 to join it. So I'll have to try to get it sorted out, one way or another.


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#18 Will Montgomery

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

I'm building quite a Super 8 camera graveyard and I don't want this 4008 to join it. So I'll have to try to get it sorted out, one way or another.

If you get Bjorn to work on it, it will be everything you'd hoped and more. Worth the investment to get it back into fighting shape.


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#19 Simon Wyss

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:43 AM

I’m sitting over a Pathé WEBO DS-8 BTL. These products are bottomless pits. Never again!

 

Quite similar with the Beaulieu Super-Eights. I can only advise to leave the crappiest of all formats and switch to Double-8 or 16. The Beaulieu R 16 is a fine camera, I mean the spring driven models.


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#20 Will Montgomery

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 01:17 PM

I can only advise to leave the crappiest of all formats and switch to Double-8 or 16. The Beaulieu R 16 is a fine camera, I mean the spring driven models.

Hey! Everyone knows regular 8 is the crappiest of all formats!!! How dare you!!!

 

Don't you know regular 8 is the new Super 8?


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