Jump to content


Photo

Panavision having financial problems


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:35 PM

It seems that Panavision may be having difficulties.

 

http://news.doddleme...r-unpaid-loans/

 


  • 0

#2 Christopher Sheneman

Christopher Sheneman
  • Guests

Posted 07 June 2013 - 05:50 PM

They had their time in the sun.


  • 0

#3 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:00 AM

I wouldn't think of Panavision as purely a film equipment rental company, they've been involved in the development of video and digital cameras with Sony and others for many years. What happens will depend on how this $1.7m plus the costs is handled by the courts and how potential any sell off is handled. I suspect the most likely outcome could be it being sold off as a going concern.


  • 0

#4 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:09 AM

Is it just me or does 1.7M seem trivial almost? It's not to me, mind you, but I don't understand how it could be so hard to raise that much capital.


  • 0

#5 Dom Jaeger

Dom Jaeger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1604 posts
  • Other
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:51 AM

I wouldn't place much trust in an article whose only interview is with Shane Hurlbut talking nostalgically about the Primos he used to shoot "Act of Valour" and how "they vignette up to a 35mm, which translates to a 24mm lens. Now that is nice. There are so many different lenses that have been lost and need a re-birth."  WTF? :blink:  This is the end of Panavision and the only commentary they can come up with is Shane Hurlbut talking nonsense?

 

Panavision have been in troubled financial waters since Perelman acquired them in '98. I remember going through a patch in the early 2000s working at the Sydney branch where every purchase, even a screw, had to be cleared through Woodland Hills. Nothing new here, though I imagine the digital revolution has hit them hard. Their big advantage is their lens inventory and the fact that you can't buy a Panavision product. Yet.


  • 1

#6 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:36 AM

Another article: http://www.hollywood...-default-563573

 

They do have a strong brand name, which has a value in its own right. 


  • 0

#7 Bill DiPietra

Bill DiPietra
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2339 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New York City

Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:27 PM

Is it just me or does 1.7M seem trivial almost? It's not to me, mind you, but I don't understand how it could be so hard to raise that much capital.

 

I thought the same thing, Adrian.  You would think a company like Panavision would have that amount stored in the cookie jar.


Edited by Bill DiPietra, 08 June 2013 - 03:28 PM.

  • 0

#8 Gregg MacPherson

Gregg MacPherson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1883 posts
  • Other
  • New Zealand

Posted 08 June 2013 - 04:48 PM

Is it just me or does 1.7M seem trivial almost? It's not to me, mind you, but I don't understand how it could be so hard to raise that much capital.

 

That article said that most of their 335M debt was written off in restructuring.  Must be hard for lenders or investors to have confidence after that.  Maybe it's an opportunity for the high risk takers. 


  • 0

#9 Christopher Sheneman

Christopher Sheneman
  • Guests

Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:55 PM

I'm guessing they just want to seize their assets, physical and otherwise, making such a fuss over 1.7M..


  • 0

#10 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:36 AM

I mean in reality, they could probably sell some older lenses for 1.7M easy and call this a day. Of course they probably won't do that. Another cool option would be maybe to release their own consumer lenses. Man, could you imagine the feeding frenzy of low-budget shooters if all of a sudden they could buy a "Panavision" lens for their 5D! I can see the jobs postings now... though it would be some money of course .


  • 0

#11 Richard Boddington

Richard Boddington
  • Sustaining Members
  • 5482 posts
  • Director

Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

Their Toronto office famously demanded payment for their equipment in US dollars all through the 90s when the Canadian dollar was very low against the USD and it cost $1.40 CDN to buy one USD.  This really ticked off a lot of people as the other rental houses all took payment in CDN dollars.  Panavision's philosophy seemed to be that they would service the big US productions coming into Toronto who already had USD to spend.

 

They ended up alienating a lot of potential customers here.  Bad business decision and now they are paying the price.

 

R,


  • 0

#12 Keith Walters

Keith Walters
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2219 posts
  • Other
  • Sydney Australia

Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:10 PM

It seems that Panavision may be having difficulties.

 

http://news.doddleme...r-unpaid-loans/

 

This is news?

However, I suspect that the writer may not have gotten the whole story, since $1.7 million is microscopically small change compared to the amount of money that has gone down the Pana-Drain over the last 20 years.

Also, the fact that they're not making more lenses, may just mean that they don't need any more lenses at the moment. 

 

Panavision haven't issued a shareholder dividend since about 1975 if I remember correctly.

They were only kept afloat through the 1990s by racking up about  US$600 million in bond debts. Ronald Perelman paid about $28 a share for the company in 1997; it got down to a low of $1.25 in the early 2000s before he took it private. After that its embarrassing financial record was no longer open to public scrutiny and the record gets rather murky. It is known that Perelman  spent hundreds of millions of his own money, to pay out a lot of the outstanding bonds, under the guise of a "Private Investor".  Then, a  couple of years back the banks seized the company, and Perelman no longer has any interest in it.

I mean it's great if you're one of their endless list  of executives, but as an investment, Panavision was crap.

Shorn of all its debts, I would have thought it was a workable company again, but apparently not.

I'm frankly  baffled as to how Panavision Australia have kept their heads above water for so long, because there is virtually no work here for them anymore. 


  • 0

#13 Keith Walters

Keith Walters
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2219 posts
  • Other
  • Sydney Australia

Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:27 PM

I wouldn't place much trust in an article whose only interview is with Shane Hurlbut talking nostalgically about the Primos he used to shoot "Act of Valour" and how "they vignette up to a 35mm, which translates to a 24mm lens. Now that is nice. There are so many different lenses that have been lost and need a re-birth."  WTF? :blink:  This is the end of Panavision and the only commentary they can come up with is Shane Hurlbut talking nonsense?

 

Panavision have been in troubled financial waters since Perelman acquired them in '98. I remember going through a patch in the early 2000s working at the Sydney branch where every purchase, even a screw, had to be cleared through Woodland Hills. Nothing new here, though I imagine the digital revolution has hit them hard. Their big advantage is their lens inventory and the fact that you can't buy a Panavision product. Yet.

I don't why Jim Jannard doesn't buy the place. The already have quite a few RED cameras and most of the rental infrastructure (where the real money is) is in all the accessories, which are generally format-agnostic and paid for ages ago. If they parachuted in a lot more RED products,  got rid of most of their pointless management positions and relaunched the company, Jim could be a rich man :rolleyes:  


  • 0

#14 Gregg MacPherson

Gregg MacPherson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1883 posts
  • Other
  • New Zealand

Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:19 PM

Maybe Arri or Sony couyld buy them instead.  Sorry,  it's been a difficult day.


  • 0

#15 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:56 PM

JVC? That'd be interesting.. or maybe Black Magic?


  • 0

#16 Christopher Sheneman

Christopher Sheneman
  • Guests

Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:56 AM

Panavision is a niche product not a global phenomenon ripe for re-invention. Buy them and do what? Any camera company successful now won't be interested in this company's obsolete technology or diluting it's brand or confusing it's customer base for an imaginary return all because of a hoped for 'new' Panavision innovation which will never ever materialised.

 

 

 

Plus Panavision has always represented a divide between monied studio filmmaking and independant filmmaking. And they've been pimping fillmakers for the last 15 years too, huh? Well, I'll be glad to see them go.

 


  • 0

#17 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:15 AM

What used to sell Panavision was their system, they were modular long before RED came up with the term. I suspect how much you got charged depended on the local manager, I used to get pretty good rates from our local Panavision office. However, there was always the impression that the company was ever expanding and that's something that comes at a price, as the Royal Bank of Scotland discovered. Also, large organisations tend to have remote management with a particular corporate style, unlike Joe Dunton Cameras, where Joe Dunton had his desk on the equipment floor. 

 

I'm not sure which divide between independent film making is being referred to, the tough part is attaching name actors so that you can get production funding and distribution, the cameras are the easy bit.  


  • 0

#18 Christopher Sheneman

Christopher Sheneman
  • Guests

Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:34 AM

 

I'm not sure which divide between independent film making is being referred to, the tough part is attaching name actors so that you can get production funding and distribution, the cameras are the easy bit.

Brian, I'm talking about real independant filmmaking. "Clerks", "Go Fish", "Primer". Some of us don't wish to "attach" name actors to our films.


  • 0

#19 Gregg MacPherson

Gregg MacPherson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1883 posts
  • Other
  • New Zealand

Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:33 AM

Christopher,

Is it your own personal experience that the local Panavision is non friendly to indies or is this just a myth that you want to promote?

 

In Auckland New Zealand I found the repair and sales guys friendly,  helpful and happy to do some tech stuff off the books for a case of beer.


  • 0

#20 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5070 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:35 AM

You mightn't but the distributors do, it's the first question they ask. The independent films on which no one gets paid, but with a small number breaking out the festival circuit have existed for many years. Funding an independent film on which you have a paid cast and crew is a serious commitment for a producer, unfortunately, the same type of people who are after the repayment of the loan we're discussing are also after the same from people working on the films.


  • 0


Glidecam

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Visual Products

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Opal

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Opal

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

CineLab