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Super 8 Vision3 50D Home Movie Test Footage

Vision3 50D Super 8

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#1 David Cunningham

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

Some sample footage of the new Vision3 50D Super 8 from Kodak.

 

This footage was lightly grain reduced using Neat Video noise reduction in Adobe Premiere Pro.

 

Scanning by Spectra Film and Video on their Spirit HD Telecine, 1080p, graded scene-to-scene.

 

Canon 1014 XL-S

 

Some of the most interesting facts I've learned from these tests.

1.) The Spirit HD Telecine at Spectra is one of the sharpest, if not the sharpest, Super 8 scanner available.

2.) The Spirit HD Telecine, as is discussed at length on forums and other websites, does not handle jitter or registration very well. In fact, line-sensor-based scanners/telecines all seem to have this problem. You'll notice backgrounds flexing and stretching from time-to-time. This appears to be directly related to jitter frames. Although Bayer Pattern area sensors have many draw backs, my experience the last few years now tells me that they are better for Super 8.

 

3.) Neat Video noise reduction is fantastic, worth the money and works really well with Super 8 Ektachrome 100D reversal and Vision3 50D negative as well as most 16mm film stocks. But, don't bother using it with any other Super 8 negative films. The grain is just too extensive and large in 500T. The grain detector does not reduce the grain unless you turn up the grain size. But, this leeds to very obvious smudging. You can get it to reduce grain... but it quickly starts to look like an oil painting. You can even see it in this footage if you are looking for it.

4.) Go with flat scan if you have the time and resources to deal with DPX files and flat data. Graded scans are fantastic but no colorist is going to take the time to get it perfect because that takes hours. If you have the time and resources, grade your own scans and create your own video files from DPX image sequences. The best example from this test is the washed out background behind the second scene.  The building and sky in these scenes can be pulled out quite a bit more with highlights masks and a pain-staking grading. I didn't rescan the whole thing, only rescanned a few frames on a flatbed scanner. But, there is way more detail in these highlights that were blown out during the grading of this scan. I'll try to post an example frame on the forums. If the highlights are blown out in your graded scan, you can't get them back without re-scanning. Only flat scans optimized to achieve Dmin and Dmax can give you it all.

So, that's it for now. Please comment! Long live film, especially Kodak Vision3!

 

 

 

 


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#2 Chris Burke

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:41 PM

fantastic looking footage. I just shot two rolls of the 50D as a sort of test in Miami Beach. Will post the results here.


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#3 David Cunningham

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:44 PM

Here are examples of highlight details lost:

 

Highlight20.jpg

 

VS

 

Highlight11.jpg


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#4 Marc Marti

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 06:53 AM

Amazing stuff... This Vision3 50 is a fantastic stock...

Just a question: Is there any artificial sharpening on the images? I can see halos on the corners of everything.

 

Impressive, anyway...


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#5 Jose luis villar

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:11 AM

I have also seen the colored lines to the edges. I think it's no sharpening, is rather due to chromatic aberration during the transfer process.


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#6 David Cunningham

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 07:29 AM

Marc and Jose, agreed with you both... again, I believe it's related to line-sensor scans and super 8... maybe a grain aliasing thing?

 

Jose, I've actually seen the moving background jitter issue in some of your Ochoypico scans including your Indi and Cold Spring film.  Check out the railing and windows at 1:04 (I downloaded from vimeo).  You actually see the railing warp and the window reflection distort, much like my film where the brick wall stretches and distorts.  I'm working to get this same film re-scanned on an area-sensor based system to see if that goes away, which I imagine it will.

 

Vision3 is amazing and Neat Video makes it that much more ridiculous.  I slightly over grain reduced to make the point and would never go that far again, but it's amazing that it can be done.  My 500T looks like I smudged it with an eraser though.  :)


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#7 Marc Marti

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:41 PM

Examining the stills (my last comment was made just after watching the video), I'm with the chromatic aberration theory.

It's a pity, as otherwise, the quality is fantastic.

 

Thanks a lot for the test, David! :)


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#8 David Cunningham

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:54 PM

Thanks Marc, 

 

Yeah, I agree.  Hopefully the ScanStation at Gamma Ray Digital in Boston will be online soon so I can have them test this same footage.  The ScanStation uses a color area CCD, so the jitter issue should be alleviated.  But, you never know about the rest of the issues or what the Bayer Pattern will introduce.  We shall see.

 

Dave


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#9 David Cunningham

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:02 PM

The color CCD should eliminate chromatic aberration too.  I've seen it with my line-sensor-based 35mm slide scanner (Plustek 8200i) as well.

 

Dave


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#10 David Cunningham

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 08:34 PM

Hi All,

 

I also want to repeat that if you want an amazingly sharp color corrected QT Super 8 scan and amazing service, you can't go wrong with Spectra.  Their spirit setup is fantastic.

 

Dave


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#11 Jose luis villar

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 10:22 AM

Hi David, i think it's a good transfer, and demonstrates the possibilities of the Vision 3 Super 8. The only thing I want to say is that maybe it's better to apply a little less noise reduction, do not forget that this is film and not video.

 

 

And thanks for the test.


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#12 David Cunningham

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 11:22 AM

Hi Jose,

I agree. I definitely applied a bit more than I would normally or in the future, partly to make the point and like you say, show the possibilities.

I would never, for example, apply this much ( if any) grain reduction to any of my wedding films. The grain is half of what you're going for.

Thanks for the nod.

Dave
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#13 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:28 AM

GREAT footage!


Why is everyone seeming so utterly obsessed with grain reduction at any level though?


For me, part of the joy of shooting Super 8 is the obvious film grain; as it has such a distinctive look.

In this 1080 HD and soon to be 4K UHD obsessed world I honestly find a bit of film grain quite refreshing.


There's often nothing finer than watching some three minute grainy mini-masterpiece, shot hand-held on Tri-X, with the odd highlight blowout.

I'll gladly take that over all the countless hours of pin-sharp 4K, smoothly Steadicam operated, perfectly colour balanced footage shot for work.


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#14 David Cunningham

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 06:59 AM

GREAT footage!


Why is everyone seeming so utterly obsessed with grain reduction at any level though?


For me, part of the joy of shooting Super 8 is the obvious film grain; as it has such a distinctive look.

In this 1080 HD and soon to be 4K UHD obsessed world I honestly find a bit of film grain quite refreshing.

There's often nothing finer than watching some three minute grainy mini-masterpiece, shot hand-held on Tri-X, with the odd highlight blowout.

I'll gladly take that over all the countless hours of pin-sharp 4K, smoothly Steadicam operated, perfectly colour balanced footage shot for work.

 

 

I agree... the grain reduction was largely to make a point that it could be done more than anything else.  I never do grain reduction in my wedding films AND I even tend to like the Millenium at Pro8mm for them as well as those CRT telecine's just have a different look that looks a bit more like projected Super 8 than Spirit or other CCD transfers.  Also, I like to use reversal when possible.  Sadly, unless it's an all outdoor wedding, it's not really possible without crazy lighting which I feel to be intrusive.  I'd rather shoot 500T inside and out for ease of use and versatility.  


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#15 Bill Rodgers

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:22 AM

That's fair enough. :)

 

500T is certainly a great all-rounder but most reversal stocks I shoot seem virtually magical to my eyes.

 


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#16 David Owen James

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 02:21 AM

Footage looks great, David.  Amazing film stock


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#17 David Cunningham

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:45 AM

Footage looks great, David.  Amazing film stock

 

Thanks David, it is amazing.  Next up for Vision3 50D is 16mm.  That should be just plain amazing.

 

FYI to all, I'll be posting a less grain-reduced version soon.  It will still be reduced, but significantly less.


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