Jump to content


Photo

AF101 - Image Noise using a 35mm film (full frame) lens

panasonic ag-af101 noise

  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Henrique Filho

Henrique Filho

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:17 PM

Hi,

I have a Panasonic AG-AF101 for a while and I got it (2nd hand) with a Nikon NIKKOR 50mm F/1.2 AIS Manual Focus Lens (a 35mm film lens).

 

50-14-ai-KEN_0012-950.jpg

 

I haven`t experimented use another lens yet because here in Brazil is too difficult to find a Micro Four Third Lens to make some tests. But the results with this lens is not that great. (In fact, I'm thinking about buying a Voigtlander NOKTON 25mm F0.95 micro Four Thirds Lens, but I'm afraid because of the results I'm getting with the camera)

There's noise in the image, that I didn't see in the videos shooted with this camera around the internet. Most of the videos I watched here, they were shooted with some Micro Four Third lenses (or Cine Prime) and got it great results.

See this link bellow. I shoot with my lens (the Nikkor). I used ISO 200. I'll see de difference between the place lighted with spot light and lighted with normal lamp (in both way the noise continue there). Please, watch it in full screen to see the details better. Can you see noise in the image (not in all places, but in mid-light and shadows region, principally in black objects)?(please excuse this images, but i shot anything just to show you the noise (to show my problem), I didn't tried to make "beatiful images" or anything like that to show a "pretty photography")


 

Link: 

 

 

So, I'would like to know if this noise is normal, or is because I'm using this lens (35mm film loose QUALITY when we put in a Micro 4/3 Sensor?) or my camera have some problem and I have to take it to support? Will it make a HUGE difference (won't make this noise in the image) if I use a Micro Four Third lens?

Is this happened to anyone? What it could be?

Note: I tried to change de settings in the menu (include reducing the MASTER PED and the DETAIL). I used GAMA Cine-Like D, Matrix Cine-Like, DRS OFF, FILM CAM, 1080/24P

 


  • 0

#2 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:30 PM

The lens has nothing to do with how much noise is being recorded on the camera. I recall when I used the AF-101 not being happy with the noise on it either. But that is because I really wasn't setting the camera up just right. I find with panasonics you have to really dial in a picture profile to make them look the right way (and then there is also noise reduction you can do in post).

 

Also, what gain are you shooting at? You should possibly start with -3 gain (which I think you can do) but certainly 0 db gain....

 

You should also be able to google around to find the settings people use to get the least noise out of the camera. I didn't go back to the camera after that one shoot to play around.


  • 0

#3 Henrique Filho

Henrique Filho

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:47 PM

Thanks for answering. I used ISO 200 (the lowest gain I can get) and also I tried to follow the configuration that some photography directors used. They got real great images usings lens like Lumix, or the Zeiss CP.2 pack. I didn't see any noise like mine in those videos. But even trying to do the same settings they used, the noise continued. I tried a lot of way os settings, they can reduce the noise, but always some bad noises appears somehow. And I don't think the problem is the camera. I think that maybe can be same problem else, because if it was a caracteristc of this camera the Panasonic would be really stupid of making this model of camera and the other videos around the net would be similar of what I'm doing. 

 

I thought it was the lens, but after making same searches, I realized that the lens couldn't affect the quality or the noise in the image. So I'm very confused and I'm afraid the get new lenses and the problem doesn't be solved with it.


  • 0

#4 Henrique Filho

Henrique Filho

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Director

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:51 PM

Needless to say that this images I made in that video weren't a "great work". It was just to show you all my problem. But with what have been said about this camera, it shouldn't make this results (with the light it was on and with a F1.4 lens) and neither has to make a lot of settings to avoid noise.

 

It's really weird.


  • 0

#5 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:54 PM

Perhaps you should try more lighting.... get above the noise floor on the blacks and mids then you can crush them down a bit in post.....and with them goes the noise.


  • 0

#6 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 28 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

Also none of that looks exceptionally bad... it just looks like you need to color correct it and bring your blacks down a bit... in order to get the noise to go down.


  • 0

#7 Henrique Filho

Henrique Filho

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Director

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

I'll try what you are suggesting.

 

Maybe making some day light videos to show you that it's not a matter of lighting too. I know it's not looking like an "real bad" video quality. But for this cam, I find it wird getting all this noises.

 

Thanks you.


  • 0

#8 Henrique Filho

Henrique Filho

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Director

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:03 AM

I tried in the post deal with the black levels to hide the noises there in my last short film, but the results in a big screen were not not fine to me.


  • 0

#9 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:03 AM

All cameras have noise. It's the nature of the beast. Plus if you're recording internally, you're also getting slammed by the low-bitrate of the camera; which I think it 27mbps? A lot of people paired these with Ki Pros or Hyperdeck Shuttles, which while still 8bit on the AF101 (the 101A I think has 10bit out?) Gets around the limited bit-rates.

I would also look into this thread on dvxuser:

 

http://www.dvxuser.c...looks-like-snow

 

 

Seems to show a lot of peoples experienced with the noise.


  • 0

#10 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:07 AM

From Page 2 of DVX user:

 

Use gamma curves B.PRESS or CINE-V. I'm guessing you were using Cine-D, and that is the absolute worst in terms of noise. Try switching to CINE-V (second to best relative to noise) and/or B.Press (best, it crushes blacks). Again, this is disappointing, I had assumed the new large sensor would make Cine-D useable.


  • 0

#11 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:25 AM

Also this:

 

http://www.dvxuser.c...oise-complaints


  • 0

#12 Henrique Filho

Henrique Filho

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Director

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:30 AM

Yes, 28mbps (max). The clips were with like 14 mbps in data rate.

 

Yeah, it's 8 bit.

 

Great. I haven't seen this thread yet. I'll read it. 

 

I tried the B.PRESS as well, and the noise was not good too, but i think it was reduced. 

 

Watch this:

 

 I know its in day light, but even so my images get a lot of more noise than this.  

 

Or this one:

 

Look the low light images. That's so not what I'm getting in here. 


  • 0

#13 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 29 June 2013 - 12:33 AM

Retry your testing shooting @ higher bit rate.... 14 doesn't cut it.


  • 0


Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Opal

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

CineLab

The Slider

CineTape

Opal

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks