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Help with setting up a Model C printer


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#1 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

Hi fellow labrats,

richard from nanolab in Australia here.  I have acquired a number of Model C printers in various states of repair.  I have cobbled together a 35mm printer and most of two 16mm printers.

Right now I am at the stage of turning the 35mm printer on.  I have sorted the 120 volt AC and connected that.  I have connected the DC supply.  I have a punch tape reader connected.  I have connected all the connectors that I can make sense of.

With the power switch on, the lamp switch will turn on and off the lamp fan.  I haven't inserted a bulb in the lamp house yet.  The DC volt scale lights up as do a couple of other little lights on the main control pannel (footage rate, etc). 

But nothing I do seems to make the motor actually run.  Nor am I able to get any life out of the light vanes.  While I don't have a punch writer (ie paper tape punch for the punch tape reader), i was hoping of using the three trim controlls to make basic light adjustments.  There is an RF and notch detector for changes.  I hope that it will be possible to load values into the trim controlls, and have those values activated by the notch detector.

It does make sense to me that the light vanes may not move or show signs of life until the motor is running.

The motor has a power cable as well as a multi pin cable connecting to the puch tape reader.  But there are also two other cables (coming from the same part of the motor housing as the cable that connects to the punch tape reader).  I don't seem to have anywhere for these two cables.  Those cables are of the same vintage and type as the other multi pin cables on the printer - ie 1960s style aluminium casing with a screw collar,  unlike the extra cables on the Schmitzer model C printer's motor (yes, have two Schmitzers too), which is a flat ribon type multi strand thing.

So, my question is, anyone have any thoughts as to what I need to do to get the motor to run?  To be honest, I have only used a model c printer once.  There are the three pesky buttons - Auto, Test and Stop.  Does one normally just press 'Auto' to make the thing run?  Are there microswitches somewhere that need to be closed in order for the thing to run?  Will it not work without a bulb in the lamp house?  I notice that when i connect the dc and turn on the lamp, the dc meter moves to the left, as though the dc power has the wrong polarity.  This could, I guess, be because there is no bulb ... maybe.

So, I am keen to get this going.  And I am keen for any suggestions!

many thanks

richard

 


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#2 Brian Pritchard

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:21 PM

Richard

You must make sure that the film break rollers are held up into position, you usually do this by putting rubber bands to the roller above.  The machine shuts down if the film breaks.  You can only operate the trims manually. They move the 1 to 50 by 22 points.  Only the light valves will work from the RF cue detector or the notch detector.  It is possible that the other cables are FCC information from the motor.  What you really need is the Model C manual.  I am not sure when I will be in a lab next but when I am I will check for you if you can wait.

Best Wishes

Brian


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#3 Brian Pritchard

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:22 PM

Thinking about it further, I think you need a punch tape in the reader for the machine to run.

Brian


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#4 Chris Riley

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:04 AM

Hi Richard.

 

Brian is right, you need the film break rollers held in to simulate film being threaded through the printer. There are micro switches behind the swinging rollers after film passes through the gate. There is also a micro switch on the film gate itself, which will cause the printer not to run.

I think you also need to have a lamp in the printer with it on before anything happens, though this could be negated if your switch the machine to override.

 

You also need to have a tape loaded into the fcc reader to operate, unless you switch the machine to 'Override'. Depending on the exact printer you have, the override switch could be on the top of the vane housing or around the back on top of the box where all the cables plug in.

You wont be able to adjust the vanes without the tape, though you can open and close them to see if they work.

 

J1gmw0c.jpg

 

I'm assuming your tape reader looks like this and everything is plugged in where it should be. To open your vanes, go to the top left series of buttons, push the left hand button 'PRT RST', then the right hand button 'FCC RST', then hold down the middle button 'CUE' you should hear the vanes click twice, half open, then fully open.

 

Let me know if anything hapens.

I'll have a look around and see if I have any old service manuals I could send you. It would also be a good idea to see some pictures, front and back, just to be sure what we are dealing with here.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris.


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#5 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 06:16 AM

Thanks Chris and Brian,

I found a manual for the printer in one of the myriad boxes.  That will help.  But yes, I'd like to show you some pictures of the unit to see if there is anything else you can suggest.

Just now I tested whether there was 120v at the 3 pin cable that runs from the control pannel to the motor and there wasn't.  So I patched 120v directly into that cable and sure enough the motor ran, so it ain't the motor itself that isn't working.  I obviously just haven't yet been able to get power to that socket.  I don't have any tape or a tape punch, which is a bummer.

my puch reader is older than the one you show there Chris (I know where there is one exactly like that in someone's garage, but they want too much for it!).  I'll post a picture of the model I have.

all the best,

richard


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#6 John Rizzo

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:30 AM

Hi Richard 

 

the lite vanes are powered by the tape reader

 

The first thing needed to be know is witch tape reader you have? The first of the series known as The slow speed reader  which was also the smallest in size, after that there was the High Speed reader which was much larger, the next version was able to do do the Lite vane changes and fcc reading (frame count cueing)  from a single box through the years they were modified and different versions came out.

 

the best thing to do is send a picture of the tape reader if you do I can offer some other advice.


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#7 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 06:50 PM

well, studious use of the manual has yielded success!  Mine is the high speed reader.  I had neglected the large rectifier that is supposed to sit on the base of the printer stand.  But it turned out I had one of these, and amazingly given its appearance, it turned out to work. 

So, thank you very much for listening and being willing to help gentlemen.

No doubt other questions will emerge as I begin to use it.

all the best,

richard


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#8 Chris Riley

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 01:46 AM

Hi Richard,
 
I had a look around work today, in a forgotten cupboard and found a few things you might be interested in.
Several boxes of parts for model C printers. Some of the parts looked old and stripped down, as we had replaced a lot of older components with newer versions etc. but there may be hard to find things you need.
 
A bunch of different tape readers.
A0yON3A.jpg
 
Another tape reader and take up motor.
J9D9Tj0.jpg
 
2 facit tape punchers that you mentioned not having. Unsure if they work or not. Also, read the box for part names.
caYS7VA.jpg
 
2 lamp power supplies, a sound lamp power supply and another tape reader.
DnUFQny.jpg
 
More bits 'n pieces.
vmfw3SK.jpg
 
 
The sad thing is, everything is being thrown out. In. The. Rubbish! If you want anything, let me know ASAP and I'll see what I can do. I could also open boxes and take pictures and give better descriptions of parts you may want.
Here is a picture of what just happened with our 2 Black and White processing machines today. To the scrap man. A sad day indeed.
ryqDeaO.jpg
 
 
Cheers,
 
Chris.

Edited by Chris Riley, 29 July 2013 - 01:48 AM.

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#9 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 08:48 PM

Just an update: I now have been able to connet the cue notch detector directly to the manual cue button of the high speed reader.  This means I can make manual colour changes using the 24 points of the trim dials and have then actuated on a notch.  This is pretty neat, since I don't have a tape puch writer.

I am still looking for a few spare parts for other Model C printers I have.  I want to get a 16mm model C working in my lab, and another in our artist run community lab in melbourne - artistfilmworkshop.org

So, if anyone has some spares where they work ... I'd like to get my hands on some of the following bits:

 

a pair of the spring loaded tensioning pointers that keep the neg and print under tension before the gate.

a 16mm rubber gate roller

AC and DC power in cables (with those odd bakalite ends)

a lamp socket for the smaller sized lamps.  the type of socket that has its position adjustments inside the lamp house, rather than below it

a 35mm roller that has the profile for the notch detector switch (right now I am using such a roller from a schmitzer head but the shaft on that roller is a tiny bit thinner, so its a bit loose).

a notch detector switch

 

The machines I have had all been canabalised.  i have 5 of them in total, and am trying to get three together, so if anyone can help, please let me know.

 

(Chris (Park Rd) a sent you a message, wondering if you got it)


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#10 Brian Pritchard

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 03:39 AM

Richard

I know that Tony Scott at Film and Photo has quite a few Model C Spares.  It would best to give him a call on (0) 208 993 0037 if you can't find anything locally.

Brian


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