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Red Dragon footage


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#1 Michel Hafner

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 03:36 AM

More dynamic range than film...


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#2 Chris Millar

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:47 AM

I see a rectangle of pixels at 0 0 0


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#3 Vadim Bobkovsky

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:27 AM

I believe film holds overexposure better, look at the evening sky. Something is off.


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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 09:33 AM

It looks pretty good I suppose; but not all that substantially different that most other high-end digital cameras. Slightly softer, but, well, 1) looking @ this on vimeo is kind of pointless. 2) I have no idea how much went on in post (e.g. color corrections, softening, noise reduction ect).

I mean, I see great looking footage off of a 5D as well, it looks amazing on vimeo, because it's a sample bias. You're putting your best footage forward, normally.

 

Aside, I don't know if red should even be fighting against film or the F65 in all honesty. If anything, their big threat has always been the Alexa.

 

But, another day another tool and of course we'll all be happy to get eve slightly more dynamic range out of anything.


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#5 George Ebersole

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:33 AM

It looks pretty good I suppose; but not all that substantially different that most other high-end digital cameras. Slightly softer, but, well, 1) looking @ this on vimeo is kind of pointless. 2) I have no idea how much went on in post (e.g. color corrections, softening, noise reduction ect).

I mean, I see great looking footage off of a 5D as well, it looks amazing on vimeo, because it's a sample bias. You're putting your best footage forward, normally.

 

Aside, I don't know if red should even be fighting against film or the F65 in all honesty. If anything, their big threat has always been the Alexa.

 

But, another day another tool and of course we'll all be happy to get eve slightly more dynamic range out of anything.

 

At 1920 x 1080 it looks somewhat pixelated.


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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:39 AM

I didn't notice any when I watched fullscreen HD off of the vimeo. I let it buffer, though, and it was as soon as I got up, so may've missed it.


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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:39 PM

It looks good, it's not meant to be analyzed in detail, not on a compressed Vimeo clip.  It's just a taste of things to come, to generate interest.

 

Mark says that it has one more stop in the highlights, two or more in the shadows, I assume a bit of manual underexposure could flip that balance but it would be nice if the curves used for conversion did that... I'd rather have the increased range split more evenly or biased towards highlights.  Either way, it's good news and if true, should put it on par with the Alexa if not above it in terms of DR... while already beating it in terms of resolution.  Mark says that it even outperforms his Sony F65, which sounds promising.  It's time for ARRI to make the next step.

 

I had an interesting afternoon looking at a couple of 4K TV sets in a media lab -- we looked at some 4K material shot on 35mm and with some digital cameras, and I have to say that 35mm film is not as much of a reference for 4K image quality as it used to be compared to images from the Sony F65.  I'm just talking technically of course, not aesthetically.

 

I also like how the DR doesn't seem to change that much when switching from 250 ASA to 2000 ASA on the Epic Dragon, it makes the camera a lot more flexible.

 

Probably will be a few months however before the Dragon cameras are available for rental.


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#8 Oliver Hadlow Martin

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:14 PM

Looks great. I look forward to seeing what people do with it. Having said that and despite him saying it holds highlights better than film I still find the aesthetic roll off of film more pleasing? But amazing camera none the less.

 

Id assume Arri are the type of company to just release the camera and not do all the hype before hand? A 4k (at least) camera seems a little overdue by now.


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#9 Freya Black

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:50 PM

Well the original posting was rather loaded wasn't it. *sigh*

 

Anyway I think it looks very impressive, the low light performance looks great with little noise and all this at 6K!

 

It's taking video cameras forward to the next level.

 

Doesn't remind me much of a grapefruit tho, just speaking personally of course.

 

Freya


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#10 Oliver Hadlow Martin

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 02:03 PM

Well the original posting was rather loaded wasn't it. *sigh*

 

Anyway I think it looks very impressive, the low light performance looks great with little noise and all this at 6K!

 

It's taking video cameras forward to the next level.

 

Doesn't remind me much of a grapefruit tho, just speaking personally of course.

 

Freya

 

250px-Pitaya_cross_section_ed2.jpg

 

More like one of these?


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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 02:32 PM

 

250px-Pitaya_cross_section_ed2.jpg

 

More like one of these?

 

Wow! What is that!??

It certainly has an interesting look to it, and is suitably red!

 

Freya


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#12 Stephen Williams

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 04:33 PM

Looking forward to getting my camera updated soon, I ordered within 5 minutes of orders opening.


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#13 Freya Black

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 04:51 PM

Looking forward to getting my camera updated soon, I ordered within 5 minutes of orders opening.

 

:)

 

Great, glad to hear it!

I think it makes sense for anyone who is invested in the Epic camera system. It looks like a much bigger jump than it was from M to MX or for that matter to Epic. I think it's going to be really interesting and actually something a bit different. I think it's daft people comparing it to existing things. I'm really hoping it will be something new.

 

Should put people with Epic systems close to the cutting edge of digital video.

 

Freya


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#14 Chris Millar

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:07 PM

Freya, that's a dragon fruit.

Very interesting looking thing huh, but very very bland to eat (and usually expensive).
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#15 Freya Black

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:36 PM

Freya, that's a dragon fruit.

Very interesting looking thing huh, but very very bland to eat (and usually expensive).

Aha!

 

heh heh!

 

Looks classy tho. Thanks for introducing me to it. :)

Maybe I will get to try one someday.

 

Freya


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#16 Patrick Lewis

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:38 PM

Still looks like video to me.


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#17 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:42 PM

Why, because it's grainless?


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#18 Patrick Lewis

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 10:55 PM

Low contrast, grainless, not-that-great color. Color is subjective, of course, but it just lacks a richness that I see in film and not this. Film gives better local contrast in faces, it seems. Each time I get a workprint back from the lab and run it through a projector, I'm wowed. This doesn't get me excited, and, honestly, I find the video a little pretentious. I prefer Kodak's filmstock demo videos. They don't try to grab you emotionally because they don't have to; the stock speaks for itself.


Edited by Patrick Lewis, 04 August 2013 - 10:57 PM.

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#19 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:02 PM

In terms of color, I was honestly least impressed with the night int @ about 1 min mark. Just didn't look "good," but that's very subjective and more than likely is an op choice -v- a specific camera thing.


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#20 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:23 AM

It's low in contrast and color mainly because it is a basic conversion from raw with a minimal amount of color correction -- if you saw a log scan of film you'd say that it was really, really low in contrast and color until it was corrected.  Generally pushing color and contrast will reduce the dynamic range visible and since the main reason for the test is to demonstrate dynamic range, it would naturally be left somewhat subdued.

 

Classic broadcast Rec.709 video, on the other hand, has a very limited dynamic range, which this footage looks nothing like -- if it had been shot on a betacam camcorder, I think you'd see something very different in look than this test, so I don't see why it is necessary to be so dismissive by calling it "video".  It is very clean especially at night compared to high-speed film, which is the main reason why it doesn't look like film.


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