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Internet distribution Vs Traditional


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#1 Donavan Sell

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:26 PM

I recall this was touched upon before but I cant find it, 

Why does work distributed on the internet not recogonized by CSTAF? 

What about the crews working on the shows distributed on Netflix?  ( House of Cards, Arrested Development. etc) 

 

Has there been any push to change this ruling?  and or does anyone else seem to care? 

 

 


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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 20 August 2013 - 01:52 PM

I was wondering about this. The problem (and, some would say, the delight of it) is that there's then no real way to differentiate all of youtube from Netflix.

 

I'm not sure how you'd draw the line.


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#3 Freya Black

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:43 AM

Sounds entertaining! What is CSTAF?

 

Freya


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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

Contract Services Adminstration Trust Fund -- the administration created by the producers (AMPTP) as part of their collective bargaining agreement with IATSE (the union for crews).  Their main job is deciding who gets on the roster for work, when you apply to join the union, you are actually applying to Contract Services & the producers.  They also run the safety training classes and certifications.

 

In terms of royalties and residuals from internet distribution, I'm not sure that falls under CSATF control, maybe it does.  For IATSE workers, they don't get residuals individually, unlike SAG, WGA, and DGA members, but their union does, it goes into their healthcare & pension fund (as well as administrative costs I assume).  So just as with the other unions, the whole issue of internet profits is something that still hasn't been worked out because the studios like to claim that internet distribution is just a form of advertising and promotion, it is not actual content distribution.


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#5 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 12:53 PM

Freya, glad you asked...

 

the studios like to claim that internet distribution is just a form of advertising and promotion, it is not actual content distribution.

 

Perhaps what I'm about to say is redundant, but I think they're going to have that cosy little norm rather rudely shattered over the next year or two.

 

P


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#6 Freya Black

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 07:21 AM

Ack! was hoping it might be something more to do with awards ceremonies. "...and the Oscar for best kitten video goes to..."

Oh well, in my imagination the world is much more entertaining.

Anyway... 

 

Freya, glad you asked...

 

Perhaps what I'm about to say is redundant, but I think they're going to have that cosy little norm rather rudely shattered over the next year or two.

 

P

 

Hmmm. Depends on what you mean. I think it will take more than 2 years too, but Hollywood have already severely undermined their current business model, and it's questionable how long they can prop things up for, but they are doing a great job so far at keeping the balls in the air.

 

I think the big threat from the internet is more towards television that cinema per se and the internet is likely to remain as just a source of advertising and promotion to the studios. Despite the theoretical lower costs of online rentals, revenue is a lot lower. I don't see it bringing in big money. If we look at other conventional media, we see that revenues from internet activity are far below that of the conventional models, and they are far more competitive to boot. I'm not expecting video to be any different.

 

In cinema I expect to see a greater reliance on big blockbuster mega releases to desperately get peoples attention and drag them in. Smaller releases OTOH becoming even less viable. This is already taking place of course.

 

At some point something will break tho.

 

Freya


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#7 Richard Boddington

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:07 PM

One has to question if theatrical releasing will still be around in 20 years?  Originally it was the ONLY way to see a movie. Now there are 10 other ways, and all of them a whole lot cheaper than theatrical releasing.

 

Will the big screen and collective viewing experience be enough to keep theatres alive in the long run? I dunno?

 

This so called "IMAX" experience is a load of rubbish.  Films are being projected on an IMAX sized screen in 16X9, the movies did not originate in the IMAX format.  Consequently there is still a large amount of unused space at the top and bottom of the screen.  Yet it's sold the public as "IMAX."  Nonsense.

 

R,


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#8 Freya Black

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:37 PM

I don't think it looks too good as you suggest Richard.

I noticed in another thread someone talking about their benq HD video projector playing blu-rays.

I'm not sure what the compelling argument is for cinema already. Film Prints are largely gone.

I'm not convinced the quality of a 2K projection will be that much better than a blu-ray.

Theres 3D of course...

 

Television and cinema are very much converging for the most part.

...and personally I'm happy to watch videos at home.

 

But the big event movies will still pull people in I imagine.

 

Freya


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#9 Freya Black

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 04:39 PM

By the way, Thank you for your helpful explanation David.

Not sure what has happened to my manners, hopefully they will return in a couple of weeks time.

 

Freya


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#10 Donavan Sell

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:34 PM

Thank you all for your input,  

Actually my initial reason to bring up this topic is pertaining to Contract services and, trying to get my days to be on the roster. 

as most of, if not all my days are Internet distributed, they dont count in the eyes of Cstaf. 

 

Just wandering what it will take to change this? 

or will they just, remain as they are. 


Edited by Donavan Sell, 25 August 2013 - 09:35 PM.

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#11 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:25 PM

What difference does it make where it gets shown, or even shown at all? Days count when worked on projects that never get finished nor distributed.
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#12 Donavan Sell

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:25 AM

Thats what I say, But apparently the robots over at Cstaf, dont see it that way, Its just driving me crazy they want 30 union days in a year, or 100 non union days in 3 yrs, and I understand that, but I had 33 union days, but 12 expired in the time between my application and the time it was filled out, ( to what I ask how do days expire???) But they dont seem very human over there and dont count days worked for internet distribution. 


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#13 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 01:26 AM

Unfortunately Contract Services is run by the producers, not the unions. I guess they don't want to admit that Internet shooting is real production work.
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#14 Frank Barrera

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:17 PM

Donavan,

 

I am sorry you are having trouble qualifying for the roster but I am not certain what you mean when you state that CSATF "doesnt count days worked for internet distribution ". FIrst of all, if you have a pay stub from a pay roll service it will not distinguish what type of ditribution your job has planned. The only thing CSATF wants to see is that you were employed as a member of the camera department (DP, Operator, AC, Loader) for 100 days over 3 years. Distribution does not enter into equation.

 

Local 600 and the Studios have negotiated a contract that includes web only programs. It is included in the so-called New Media Contract. I have worked under this agreement many times in the past 2 years. Mostly I have worked for Paramount's Digital DIvision. The Netflix shows you mentioned are also under the New Media Contract. The union and its memebers have been very vocal regarding the continued growth of studio investment in internet distribution. It is the future after all.


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