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Day exterior without lights. (12x cloth materials and best way to utilize)


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#1 Christopher M Schmidt

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:16 PM

Just curious what people like to do for day exterior overhead sun when shooting faces. We are only going to have time and budget to have 1 big frame and want to keep it pretty natural anyways just want to remove the harsh contrast. 

 

I'm thinking I have kinda two options either let the sun hit directly and then fill with ultra bounce or cut the sun with something pretty light so that its diffused enough for it to look alright but doesn't cut exposure too much so the backgrounds aren't too hot. Thinking that might be like 1/4 silk? ....how do people like grid cloth I have never worked with that before? 

 

 

I'm also going to bring out some shinny board and smaller stuff (4x frames, floppys, etc) but again since trying to keep it pretty natural I don't want to do too much and shinny board can be pretty strong. has anyone had experience shooting shinny board through diff? 


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#2 Christopher M Schmidt

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 04:31 PM

A follow up question too:

 

 

anyone know how much light you get outta 12x ultra bounce? how many stops under direct sunlight are you at (I mean obviously dependent on how far talent is away from it but just to get an idea?) .....If I were to position the sun behind talent and and fill with the 12x UB from 10ft away am I going to get anywhere near a reasonable exposure on the face? 


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#3 Mathew Rudenberg

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

This all sounds like fairly standard stuff, you should have no problem handling a day exterior with what you're using. And it seems like you understand what needs to be done - use the frame as an overhead if the light is too toppy, use it as a fill if it's low enough to be pleasant. 

 

I'd say you could comfortably go up to a at least a 1/2 silk depending on the range of your camera, 1/4 silk was only something I found necessary in the bad old days of rec 709. You can go thicker if the sun isn't front lighting anything white in your bg. Vegetation is always your friend as green eats up a lot of light.

 

As for the bounce, you should get plenty of return from a 12x ultrabounce 10 feet away provided it's aimed right - just bring it in closer if you need more. at an educated guess I'd say you'd get about 2-3 stops under sunlight.


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#4 Christopher M Schmidt

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

yea super standard....I've never really had to do this kinda day exterior work for some reason just has not come up. 

 

any knowledge on the effective difference between grid and silk? 


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#5 Mathew Rudenberg

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:25 PM

I've heard the difference described as the silk reduces contrast by adding ambient light, whereas grid removes contrast by softening shadows. Personally I prefer grid for beauty work.

 

Silk also allows some air to pass through which can be good if it's windy. Grid can be very noisy if it's windy so it's better to try to get silent grid. Grid is not permeable though, so it's more prone to being blown away.


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#6 Christopher M Schmidt

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:40 PM

hmm ok, so grid is a bit more directional then? sounds good Ill probably go in that direction the stuff I have seen with 1/2 silk I didn't like much because it seemed a light artificial and didn't feel like sunlight it was so soft. 

 

Thanks much for the feedback. 


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#7 Mathew Rudenberg

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 06:58 PM

I would actually say that silk, especially 1/2 silk, leaves a harder light.

 

However, if you didn't like silk I'd definitely give grid a go as it all comes down to personal preference.

 

Keep in mind you can still choose between full grid, half grid (light grid), and quarter grid. Just as with silk it's a balance between how  much stop you're willing to lose and how soft you want the light to be.

 

Why not bring a couple rags and switch them out, that way you can see what you prefer?


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#8 Christopher M Schmidt

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 12:52 AM

yea, I'm sure we will do that just trying to speed it up and not have to test things on the day especially when the difference is subtle I think I'll have trouble deciding on the day ha. Really wish there was some tests online of just a catalog of diff materials, it was something I was just looking for but could not find


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#9 Christopher M Schmidt

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 02:46 PM

Found this, really helpful series of diffusion tests

 


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#10 Maximilian Hillmer

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 03:13 PM

You can also let you send different test materials from Tiffen. Simply connect.

 

 

The Tiffen Company
90 Oser Avenue
Hauppauge, NY 11788
Tel: 631 273 2500
Fax: 631 273 2557
Toll Free: 1 800 645 2522
Email: techsupport@tiffen.com

 

 

_____________________________________

 

Maximilian Hillmer

 

http://www.maximilianhillmer.com


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#11 Stephen Selby

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:42 AM

Nice video. Like the silks the most.


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#12 Toby Orzano

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:48 PM

4x4 Reflector boards are very useful. You can hit an actor with a rim from a pretty good distance. Also use them a lot on establishing shots of buildings that have an entrance under an awning. Hit some light in at the shadows so it doesn't look like a black hole. Sometimes it looks really sourcey to the eye but usually reads fine in camera. Reflector boards usually have a hard side and a soft side which you can choose based on how much intensity you need, and you can definitely also shoot them through 4x4 diffusion frames, just make sure your angles are right so that the diffusion isn't cutting the incident light on the reflector. Usually you want a technician to shake the reflector boards up every couple takes to make sure they're aimed properly as the sun moves.

 

I work with one gaffer who likes the 12x12 checkerboard silver/gold lamé for fill bounce for wide shots under harsh midday sun where you can't use an overhead. You get a lot of punch out of it, and I think it looks a lot more natural than a straight silver or straight gold lamé. Also you can flip the ears around and use the white side on the back, which gives more bounce than a lot of the dirty ultra bounces you get from some rental houses. This is for a TV romance series, so there is more of a textbook warm stylized look rather than natural realism, so may not fit your bill. We also created custom 4x4 beadboards with silver/gold checkerboard over the normal silver shiny side for tighter shots or tracking shots that require you to follow an actor with bounce fill.

 

This same gaffer also uses a 1/3 silk for overheads. He brings this rag from Germany. I haven't seen 1/3 at a rental house in the US but it could be around somewhere.

 

For singles, you can often get by with a 4x4 frame of diffusion overhead, either handheld by a technician or in a combi stand, depending on how high the sun is. Usually complemented with a 4x4 beadboard for fill. This is often faster much faster than moving bigger frames around, especially if you are understaffed.

 

If you find yourself going back and forth between bounce and overhead and you only have one frame, skin the bounce right over the diffusion rather than pulling it off every time. Saves a bit of time when you have to switch back.

 

There are some situations where you just have to bust out the 6Ks.


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Aerial Filmworks

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Glidecam

Wooden Camera

The Slider

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Ritter Battery

Abel Cine