Arri have revealed a documentary companion to the Alexa at IBC
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Arri Amira revealed.
45 replies to this topic
Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:00 PM
A Super 35mm sensor 'Documentary' camera? Honestly, a S16 or 2/3" sized sensor would have been far more appropriate.
Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:08 PM
I know some BBC documentaries have been shot with the Alexa. I did mention Suoer 16 sized sensors to an Arri guy who mentioned that this new camera was going to be revealed at IBC, I got the impression they were aware the usefulness of the smaller sensor, plus all the Super 16 optics out there, however, nothing about them taking this up.
Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:59 PM
I suppose, and this is my general idea with arri in general, that they may not want to do a smaller (physical) sized sensor or a larger (resolution) sized sensor for the moment due to the sacrifices both may make to dynamic range. When I was over @ Arri Burbank a few months ago asking about such things that was the impression I got-- that they don't want to trade off in the DR at present. Now, perhaps sensors in their pipeline may make up for that in the future, or not, I do not know.
Still, I am quite keen on the Amira, personally. I can see this sliding very nicely in to replace the (rather crap ergonomically) cannon/panasonic/sony offerings for broadcast stuff and I certainly wouldn't mind shooting on it. Let's be serious for a moment; given the cameras native ASA or 800, you can pretty easily get to a decent working stop for focus and we have all gotten painfully used to, by now, pulling WFO off of some FF sensors, which while not ideal can and has and will be done for the foreseeable future.
What I see this as is a great d-cinema camera I can rent for less per day than an alexa, pick up and go, quite like an Aaton knowing i'll be getting more than acceptable images out of it-- an all in one, and i hate to steal the phrase, cat on your shoulder (Katze perhaps?)
Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:04 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if you wanted a smaller sensor look, couldn't you put a doubler on a wide lens and get the same results? Also, in the specs video it mentions that it will have a native B4 adapter to use 2/3" glass.
I don't know if anyone is as excited about the new CFast cards as I am. CF Cards with a SATA 3 Connection? Why didn't anyone implement those sooner? There are already cheap easy ways to adapt them to offload stations: http://goo.gl/UYM8G7
Posted 14 September 2013 - 03:43 AM
You could stop the lens down, since the small sensor look seems to centre around the deeper DOF.
I'm assuming the B4 adapter is intended for you to have the option of using the lightweight large zoom range video lenses, but with a loss of lens speed. With the sensitivity of theses cameras that shouldn't be a problem for many situations.
Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:31 PM
You can always stop down for increased DoF, but that still leaves you with the problem of finding affordable, lightweight zooms with a decent range. A S16 sensor would have made all those lovely Canon 8-64s and Zeiss 10-1s useful again...
Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:36 PM
I kind of see that; but also with the EOS mount option couldn't one get pretty affordable cine-style zooms out there... or if one is really cheap and looking for more of a "variable prime," rock and roll with some stills lenses (far less than ideal, I know.)
If you want to use the S16mm optics i suppose you'd be much better served with a pocket camera-- as that seems to be just about the only S16mm sized digital camera out there these days (i'm not sure whatever happened with the ikonoscopic). The world seems to have trended S35mm.
Posted 14 September 2013 - 11:19 PM
Arri is advertising this camera as 14-stops of dynamic range. My question: is that even achievable internally through ProRes? Or is that just referring to the sensor? If not, that is somewhat deceiving.
Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:14 AM
I would take it as the sensor, but you'd need to record log in order to make the best use of the ProRes, since this camera doesn't record RAW.
Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:44 AM
If that's true, what use is a sensor that does 14 stops if it doesn't record it internally on a camera that's marketed as "Ready to pick up and shoot straight out of the camera bag?" So I'm hoping I'm missing something. Do they mean that Log is 14 stops?
Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:23 AM
Arri are pretty honest about their dynamic range. Now really it comes down a bit to how much noise one is willing to live with sufficient to day the Amira, like the Alexa, has a very wide dynamic range sensor which tends to have the effect of jaws gaping open when you happen to play with one.Lord knows when I first played with an Alexa, my jaw gaped, and as this new camera really is the same family, i'd not be surprised to see it behave pretty much the same, even in ProRes.
Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:04 AM
The Amira looks nice and surely is a good camera but i dont get it? Another 20k + camera? Talking about "budget", and it is obvious they wanted to create a more "affordable" camera with some of the Alexa features? Or am i wrong here? Yes i am aware ARRI focuses on the professionals but i really wish they would create a camera for the enduser or the semipro who wants to step up from shooting with DSLR's but still can't afford a F55 or an Alexa or whatever 30k + camera it is. At this point i must say Blackmagic Design i a step ahead with their Cinema Pocked Camera altought its only full HD and very limmited otherwise. Something in the range of 5000$'ish dollars would be really, really good. 35mm sensor, 10 stops, PL or EF mount, 1fps to 100ftp (maybe even 500) a simple menue and thats it. It does not have to be 4k. full HD would be cool (for the end user) or maybe a 2k version.
Just a camera I as enduser or semitpro can afford. I am sure just the Brand name "ARRI" itself would help a lot to sell such a camera.
Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:10 AM
That's kind of like asking for a budget Porsche. It's not something I think Arri would do. However they were selling the D21 for like 10K awhile ago.
Even @ say 20K for the camera body, you're now in the range of what a lot of smaller outfits, but companies and some owner ops, will happily spring for, as well as an item which due to it's lower investment cost will have a lower day-rate for rentals which is where the affordability comes into play.
For the most part, the productions which use Arri cameras almost always are rentals (though I do know a few folks who own Alexas).
Also all the things you're asking for are basically already there in the FS700 from Sony, minus the dynamic range (not sure what the latitude of the FS700 actuall is)
Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:26 AM
An Arri guy I was speaking to a couple of months ago mentioned that this camera was coming out and it was intended that allow individual professional camera people (the type who used to buy their 16mm cameras) to own one, but without stepping on the toes of the Alexa owners. Regarding pricing, I can't see Arri bringing out anything costing less than say a Sony F5 or a RED Scarlet. The good thing is that Arri cameras are usually well built, so a used Amira could be a good buy in the future.
Budget is a relative thing, but looking at your specs the Sony FS 700 is the nearest, but it costs $7,500 at a well known US dealer. There is now number of options for people wanting to move away from DSLRs, although surprising numbers are still hanging onto them to shoot professional video.
If you can't afford a camera the answer is to rent it and then you don't have the burden of the depression.
Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:27 AM
I'm just dreaming adrian but i got yout point. You know i was more thinking about those DP's who dont want to rent? (long term projects) People like philip bloom ? ( i know he doesn't like to rent as he think it's a hassle. he just wants to go out there and shot ) and i understand that. As for me, i dont like to rent as well. I want to own my equipment for simple reasons. lets say its a sunday morning, you just woke up and feel the need to get out there, up to the mountains nearby because you have an idea... ouch! you dont have a camera and the rentalshop is closed on sundays. just an idea. there are many reasons why i want to own. in my case i own my moviecam compact because i want to experiment, i want to learn how the camera works, i read this or that in the internet or i see new things on youtube which then leads me to: ooh...lets try this. And if i have to rent everytime that would surely anoy me sooner or later.
back to the topic: i see all the sony cameras. awesome products. the F55, FS700, i once owned a HVR Z1 and i loved it. I just think a ARRI budget Porsche...uuhm i meant Camera would be really nice to have. Simply because an ARRI is not a Sony nor is it a Canon (C300)