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Spooling down 35mm 400' to 100' rolls


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#1 John Jaquish

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:53 PM

I'll need to spool down a 400' roll into 100' rolls and was wondering how this might be done, and what I'll need (by the way, I saw some other posts on here regarding this for 16mm daylight spools, but nothing for 35mm). I have access to a darkroom and rewinds, but wasn't sure what else I'd need (split reels?) and how to measure/keep track of the film being put on each roll. Is there some sort of rule of thumb for number of turns?

 

Also, I was wondering if it would be possible to send the film through a camera (sealed off, of course), let a hundred feet run, then use what's on the take-up reel as my 100' roll. Or would this alter the wind somehow?

 

Thanks!


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#2 Pavan Deep

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 08:50 AM

I do this in my darkroom with 16mm and am about to do this with 35mm, for 35mm you will have 35mm core [this is what the film is already wound on], 400ft spool and 35mm rewinds.

 

1) I will wind all the film from the original core to a 400ft spool [in the dark].

 

2) I will then attach the 100ft daylight spool on the rewinds [where the original core was].

 

3) I will wind 100 foot onto the daylight spool, filling the spool until there's about 5mm space left [you can feel with your fingers]. This way you are guessing the length.

 

I think the method you've suggested might work too and give you accurate lengths. I use night-vision goggles these don't affect the film and you can see what you're doing.

 

Pav


Edited by Pav Deep, 09 December 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#3 Freya Black

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:09 AM

You probably want a 35mm split spool to mount the original 400ft film on it's core in. You then need to wind it off onto another spool which needs to be 400ft or larger in size. Then you wind it back down from the new spool onto the 100ft daylight spools.

 

Freya


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#4 Mark Dunn

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:20 AM

You only need to run the film off once. 35mm. is double-perf so the wind doesn't change.

Of course you won't get four full 100' daylight loads as there won't be enough leader.


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#5 Pavan Deep

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 11:55 AM

So it's even easier than I thought, I don't think there is extra film for threading. As far as I know a can is just 400ft of film whether it's 35mm or 16mm there's no extra and in the 100ft that's all there is 100ft, for leader i.e. for threading you are using up film at least  3 feet of your 400ft or 100ft.

 

Pav


Edited by Pav Deep, 09 December 2013 - 11:55 AM.

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#6 John Jaquish

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:04 PM

Thanks!

 

I'm still wondering how I'll know it's 100 ft (incidentally, I only need three 100-ft rolls out of the 400). I suppose it's more or less a guess?


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#7 Will Montgomery

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:52 PM

If you have a local lab, just bring the film and 100' reels to it and ask them to spool it down for you. Either they will charge you just a little or do it for free when you promise to process with them.

 

I have tons of 100' Eyemo loads in the fridge from Fuji. PM me if you'd like some at an extremely discounted price. I'm shooting with them all the time but I'll never use them all. I have just about every Fuji stock recently made...except I'm low on 64D since I like that the best with an Eyemo.


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#8 John Jaquish

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:55 PM

Thanks, Will. Unfortunately, no labs in Pittsburgh... I happen to be shooting B+W right now, but will certainly keep that in mind if I have a color project.

 

 

If you have a local lab, just bring the film and 100' reels to it and ask them to spool it down for you. Either they will charge you just a little or do it for free when you promise to process with them.

 

I have tons of 100' Eyemo loads in the fridge from Fuji. PM me if you'd like some at an extremely discounted price. I'm shooting with them all the time but I'll never use them all. I have just about every Fuji stock recently made...except I'm low on 64D since I like that the best with an Eyemo.


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#9 Will Montgomery

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 11:49 AM

Get one of those priority mail boxes and send the film to videofilmsolutions.com…I bet Tommy would spool it for you either for free or for a very small fee.


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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:12 PM

So it's even easier than I thought, I don't think there is extra film for threading. As far as I know a can is just 400ft of film whether it's 35mm or 16mm there's no extra and in the 100ft that's all there is 100ft, for leader i.e. for threading you are using up film at least  3 feet of your 400ft or 100ft.

 

Pav

No, you do get a certain amount as a loading allowance. Kodak actually specify how much it is On a 100' 16mm spool the extra length also protects the bulk of the film from daylight penetration past the spool flanges. Something like 5 or 6' each end, IIRC.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 10 December 2013 - 02:13 PM.

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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 02:27 PM

I seem to remember 16mm daylight spools were 112ft. It's been a while tho.

 

In any case even if there was a little extra on a 400ft can, there won't be enough to put extra on all 4 reels.

You could however splice some leader on for loading, as was done on the movie Vampyr by Dreyer. (He was very desperate for film tho! ) ;)

 

Freya


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#12 Pavan Deep

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 03:21 PM

I put leader on my 16mm, just easier to thread.

 

Pav


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#13 Mark Dunn

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 05:02 PM

Aside from the complication of making a splice in the dark, I wouldn't want it going through the camera and potentially jamming or losing the loop.


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#14 Aaron Martin @ OH

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 11:19 AM

Get one of those priority mail boxes and send the film to videofilmsolutions.com…I bet Tommy would spool it for you either for free or for a very small fee.

 

I highly recommend sending the film to Tommy. I do this with all of my factory new stock and ends. He'll not only spool the film down but do a snip test of each reel as well. 

 

Aaron


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#15 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 08:56 PM

Thanks!

 

I'm still wondering how I'll know it's 100 ft (incidentally, I only need three 100-ft rolls out of the 400). I suppose it's more or less a guess?

 

The method I used was this.  It sounds rough,  but I never got any flashing or problems from finger contact.  I think I put on my white gloves.  Get good at applying a constant tension on the wind with drag on the feed spool with your fingers (the sides of the roll near the core).  With junk stock I counted the number of turns of the rewind handles to give the footage I wanted,  normally 100 or 200'.  Then,  when doing it for real I would just feel with my fingers how close the film was to the edge of the daylight spool.  When spooling to a core I think I had a crude caliper device that was cut to the diameter of the spool.

 

If there is a lot at stake and a lab is available,  do it that way,  but if not it actually is quite easy and can be done with little risk.


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#16 Freya Black

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:15 AM

Aside from the complication of making a splice in the dark, I wouldn't want it going through the camera and potentially jamming or losing the loop.

 

It wouldn't go through the camera tho, as it would be the other side of the gate but yeah splicing in the dark doesn't seem a blast.

 

Freya


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#17 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:30 AM

 

.....  Get good at applying a constant tension on the wind with drag on the feed spool with your fingers (the sides of the roll near the core).  ....

 

That may seem confusing.  I had a bobbin like you can use in arri magazines to mount a roll,  so I could just push the roll onto the bobin and mount that on the rewind spindle.  Sometimes I didn't have the bobin and just sat the roll with the core on the rewind spindle casting.  So yes,  no split spool on the feed side.  I did sometimes use a split spool on the take up side when winding onto cores.  I also had a bobbin with a platter on one side,  a bit like the platter in ACL magazines,  sized for a 400' roll. 

 

Sounds rough as guts but worked really well.  It does assume that one is good with handling film.


Edited by Gregg MacPherson, 17 December 2013 - 06:35 AM.

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#18 Chris Millar

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:45 AM

The amount of tension has an effect on the compression of the winds, which will become more and more of a consideration as the spool radius of the take up reel increases. Not only due to the larger circumference of film involved for each layer but the relative gearing between the two rolls.  Not much point in bringing this up however, other to point out that one persons number of turns or 'distance left to the flange' will equate to different lengths of film as the variable of tension hasn't been defined.

 

In the balance however most people will be in cooee of 100' - assuming you stop at the more or less the same point on the first 3 rolls the last reels left over flange (or left over film) will give you an indication of how you went.

 

Best to get a feel for it through practice - acquire a wasted reel if you can.

 

Also from experience with 16mm, yes you get an extra few feet for loading in a 400' roll but that extra few feet then gets divided by 4 once you're onto daylights - but then many daylight rolls feeds don't need as much header as a 400' mag.  ;)

 

Haven't done this in years - prob forgotten some important yet basic aspect, so I could be talking out of my arse  :P


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#19 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:39 PM

The amount of tension has an effect on the compression of the winds, .......

Also from experience with 16mm, .........

Haven't done this in years - prob forgotten some important yet basic aspect, so I could be talking out of my arse  :P

 

Actualy,  when I did this it was 16mm.  Then again,  I remember doing it a couple of times with 35mm,  same basic method. 

Counting the handle turns I found really useful.  The wind was fairly tight.  It got me close to the desired length.

Me too on that last part.


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#20 John Jaquish

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 07:49 PM

Thanks for the replies.

 

Sending it to a lab is a good idea and will keep that in mind for next time.

 

I ended up using a 400' dummy load on which I used a synchronizer to count the number of turns to 100', then used two 35mm split reels to spool out my rolls. I used a third reel to spool back so the keycode was in the correct order (although, I don't know if I'll actually need that). Haven't shot the film yet, but it seemed to work okay.


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