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AGFA Negativ-sicherheitsfilm Ultra Rapid any info?

16mm film panchromatic Agfa expired film

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#1 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 08:56 PM

Hi guys!!

Any info on the film below?

I understand its panchromatic. Dont know why must be opened in green light.

 

My main interes is knowing the ASA rate to shoot it, any clue?

 

pic: https://dl.dropboxus...18 19.08.23.jpg

 

Bests!!

Andrés

 

México City

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#2 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 01:32 AM

Interesting label: it was made after the foundation of the German DDR (East Germany) and before the old Agfa in Wolfen changed its name to ORWO (Original Wolfen, the pre-war Agfa factory was located in Wolfen). Googling a bit should reveal its age. VEB means Volks Eigenes Betrieb, only used in DDR probably.

Film can has some historic value, film will be heavily fogged by now, probably 60 years old or more.


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#3 Joerg Polzfusz

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:53 AM

Hi!

 

Dirk is correct. As it says "VEB Filmfabrik Agfa Wolfen", it has most likely been made between 1954 and 1964. According to this source the film used to have 120 ASA (which is most likely incorrect as I wouldn't expect Agfa using such a non-standard value. 22 DIN/125ASA or 21 DIN/100ASA is more likely). However I would assume that the film as lost 1 f-stop per decade...

(It looks like the "ultra rapid" was replaced by the "Orwo NP 7" with 27 DIN/400 ASA in approx. 1966.)

 

Jörg


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#4 Joerg Polzfusz

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:03 AM

As I can't edit my text: Here's the "corrected" version:

 

Hi!

 

Dirk is correct. As it says "VEB Filmfabrik Agfa Wolfen", it has most likely been made between 1954 and 1964. According to this source the film used to have 120 ASA. However I would assume that the film as lost 1 f-stop per decade...

Finding any data on this film is a royal PITA - especially as the corresponding DIN-norms and ASA-norms got changed in 1960/1961. So the "120 ASA" could be "old ASA" and would be equivalent to "240 ASA" as used today...

 

(It looks like the "ultra rapid" was replaced by the "Orwo NP 7" with 27 DIN/400 ASA in approx. 1966.)

 

Jörg


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#5 Mark Dunn

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:08 AM

The so-called 'green light' is just a deep olive-green darkroom safelight. B/W panchromatic films have a dip in the sensitivity curve to allow it.

Not having a machine processing line you might use one to aid loading onto a developing rack but you'd then process in total darkness.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 19 December 2013 - 05:10 AM.

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#6 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:27 AM

Thanx guys for all the info!

Im gonna shoot it and let you know the results. I will shot with my Kinor.

If its 240 ASA i think i will be exposing at 120 ASA under bright sun. Will try at least 3 different exposures to compare results.

 

I will need to think in a LAB for processing it. I usaully use Film Rescue International for that kind of old film. Any other recomendation for LAB?


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#7 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:36 PM

Any competent B&W lab should be able to process it in D-96. I would suggest you expose at 64 ISO, the film is going to be very fogged by gamma rays because of age. I wouldn't waste any money on it and buy some fresh stock.


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#8 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 07:43 PM

Hi Dirk! Will take your advice and expose at 64. Its gonna be an experiment so i dont care about fog or gamma rays or fungus.

I think we must expose any stock before all labs are gone :]

Bests!


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#9 David Cunningham

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:36 PM

Also note that film that old may be shrunken and warped. It may not run smoothly through your camera and could potentially cause a damaging jam. It's very unlikely, but possible.

Even better than exposing old stock to save your favorite labs is shooting new stick and saving both the labs and the producers of film. Only shooting new film will keep the medium alive.
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#10 Mark Dunn

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 02:19 AM

Also note that film that old may be shrunken and warped. It may not run smoothly through your camera and could potentially cause a damaging jam. It's very unlikely, but possible.

 

It's not nitrate. 16mm. has always been acetate which AFAIK doesn't shrink and film of this age won't be polyester so it would tear and not jam.

But I agree about the great age. It's more valuable as a museum piece than as raw stock.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 20 December 2013 - 02:20 AM.

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#11 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 02:48 AM

Mark,

 

Triacetate base certainly shrinks, even more when stored at room temperature. Look up 'vinegar syndrome' and you will understand. I still don't think it is a good idea to run this film.


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#12 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 10:50 AM

I was doing some research trying to date the can. Jörg says that could be 1954-64.

Wikipedia says the following, interesting part of history brings thta can.

 

On 20 April 1945, following the defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II, the plant was taken over by US forces and important patents and other documents regarding the Agfacolor process were confiscated and handed over to Western competitors, such as Kodak and Ilford. As the plant was located in what was to become the Soviet zone of occupied Germany, the US forces then handed it over to the Soviet military administration, which dismantled large parts of the plant and moved it, with key German staff, to the Soviet Union, where it formed the basis for the Soviet colour film industry.

In 1953 the plant became the property of East Germany, and in a trade agreement settlement, the East German company, VEB Film- und Chemiefaserwerk Agfa Wolfen, was given the right to sell its products under the Agfa brand in Eastern Europe, while the newly re-established Agfa in West German Leverkusen had the right to the name in the rest of the world.

As the trade agreement seriously hampered the East German company's abilities to sell in the West, the ORWO trademark (for Original Wolfen) was introduced in 1964. ORWO branded 35mm colour slide film became available in the United Kingdom in the 1970s through magazine advertisements for mail order suppliers. It was a cheaper alternative to the mainstream brands available at the time.

Following the merger of East Germany and West Germany, the company was privatised in 1990. After two bankruptcies, a new company, FilmoTec GmbH, was formed in 1998, which continues to manufacture a reduced range of former ORWO products, specialising in cine film. Some products are re-branded and sold by Maco.

The cellulose triacetate base manufacturing plant of ORWO was sold to Island Pyrochemical Industries, Mineola, NY. The new company, located in the Chemiepark, Bitterfeld-Wolfen, Germany, produces high quality TAC (triacetyl cellulose, aka cellulose triacetate) for the LCD polarizer market and the polarized sunglasses market.


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