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$10K Camera Kit Budget - Seeking Advice


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#1 Darmon Moore

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 01:15 AM

Hello!

 

Firstly I'd like to say this is my first post on this forum, and I appreciate all feedback I may receive :)

 

 

After completing my Bachelor in Digital Media (majoring in Film and Video)

I have decided that film making is the path I want to take.

I have worked on a few short films and produced a few pieces of my own.

During this journey I used a few cameras and started broadening my knowledge of several different camera systems.

 

Mostly used:

 

550D

7D

Canon C100

Panasonic P2

 

Keep in mind I have nothing, no lenses, no tripod, no rig, no nothing! :)

 

After weighing up my options I have decided that I need to purchase a "Camera Kit" that will allow me to go out and shoot without worries

of having to organize gear pick ups (I.E renting), I need a system that will cover a film makers basic needs.

 

Jimi Hendrix didn't get good at guitar by not playing the guitar!! In fact he used to play whilst making dinner :)

 

 

After doing several months of research the cameras and the kits that catch my eye are:

 

BMCC  ( shoots beautiful raw images at a low price)

FS700 (comes with bells and whistles that other cameras would need as extra items)

 

Please don't hesitate to suggest other cameras in my price range, however I would like to get out of the DSLR world.

 

I know I am asking a lot here, I'm just not fit to answer all my own questions, which is why I need to turn to professionals for advice.

 

 

 

You may ask, well what is it you shoot?

 

Narrative works are where I am looking to go.

 

 

So yeah, $10k is my budget, I know it's not a lot, but I need to make it work.

 

 

 

I really appreciate any and all advice!

 

Thanks,

 

 

Darmon

 

 

 

 

P.S is this the right forum topic for my post?


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#2 Freya Black

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:38 AM

er I think most people would say $10K is quite a lot! Not for shooting a movie perhaps but buying camera equipment to play with definitely!

 

Anyway, firstly in relation to cameras, you might want to ask this question in about a weeks time as it's kind of a daft time to be asking about that this second, whereas a week or two from now woud be the best time.

 

Secondly I think you should focus less on the camera anyway because they go out of date at an alarming rate whereas things like a decent tripod etc remain good for a long time in theory.

 

Are you including lighting in the $10,000?

 

Freya


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#3 Darmon Moore

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 03:49 AM

Hey Freya, thanks for replying!

 

Secondly I think you should focus less on the camera anyway because they go out of date at an alarming rate whereas things like a decent tripod etc remain good for a long time in theory.

 

I agree with this 100%, however I do have to get a camera before I can shoot anything.

 

I would like to include budget lighting in the $10,000, seeing as it's basically the most important part of a brilliant image.

 

Darmon. 


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#4 Freya Black

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 07:45 AM

Hey Damon,

 

  if you want to start thinking about it now then check out this thread:

 

http://www.cinematog...159#entry406706

 

  but keep in mind that everything is going to change in a few days time and there may be a completely different reality in relation to cameras by then.

 

Blackmagic Pocket is worth looking at I think more than the other blackmagic cameras as it is cheaper and gets a lot of important things right such as Micro 4/3 mount which allows you to use a wide range of lenses with adapters and also should be able to shoot raw as well as very nice pro-res to SD cards!!! It's really incredible little camera.

 

All the Blackmagic cameras suffer from being a bit DSLR in nature tho. Not as bad as an actual DSLR but something in that area.

 

GH4 looks amazing but we need more real world details on it. Also a bit DSLR'y only not quite as bad as it can sit on that special electronic brick for audio etc.

 

As I say tho, wait till everything changes over the next few days.

 

Freya


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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:07 AM

They also have a MFT 2.5K Cinema camera-- however I don't like it's sensor size as it is a bit of a to do to find lenses on the wide end--the Rokinons and the Tonika 11~16 do take care of most of that, though.


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#6 Darmon Moore

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 08:29 AM

Hey Damon,

 

  if you want to start thinking about it now then check out this thread:

 

http://www.cinematog...159#entry406706

 

  but keep in mind that everything is going to change in a few days time and there may be a completely different reality in relation to cameras by then.

 

Blackmagic Pocket is worth looking at I think more than the other blackmagic cameras as it is cheaper and gets a lot of important things right such as Micro 4/3 mount which allows you to use a wide range of lenses with adapters and also should be able to shoot raw as well as very nice pro-res to SD cards!!! It's really incredible little camera.

 

All the Blackmagic cameras suffer from being a bit DSLR in nature tho. Not as bad as an actual DSLR but something in that area.

 

GH4 looks amazing but we need more real world details on it. Also a bit DSLR'y only not quite as bad as it can sit on that special electronic brick for audio etc.

 

As I say tho, wait till everything changes over the next few days.

 

Freya

True, I am very interested to see what NAB has to offer. 

 

It's all very tough when deciding what to invest in, especially these days with so many options!

 

I'm want to wait a few months before I purchase anything, so hopefully just hits the button :)

 

 

Thanks Freya and Adrian.


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#7 Alexandre de Tolan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 05:45 PM

What about Glass? As any really good tripod I would suggest you focus on glass as well since it will stick by your side for many years if well cared after.

 

I second Freya's comment on BMPCC. It's an amazing little camera and you can add a specific Pocket Matabones adapter and end with a relatively similar S35 sensor size.

 

Buy a set of 3.5/18; 2/25; 2/35; 2/50 and 1.4/85 Zeiss ZF.2 lenses (they will put you around 7000USD or so and they are by large the best glass that kind of money can buy - they are the same glass as CP.2s). Add the pocket (1000USD), and you have 2000USD more. Put 1500USD aside for a decent tripod and the other 500USD for a V-Mount pincher, a couple of V-Mount batteries and a dual V-Mount charger (Pocket internal battery only lasts for 30 minutes).


Edited by Alexandre de Tolan, 05 April 2014 - 05:46 PM.

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#8 Oron Cohen

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:02 PM

For narrative work I'd def pass on the FS700, it's a great camera but less for narrative. 

 

For 10K my initial list will be slightly different, I will go for: 

Camera: Blackmagic 4K -  3000$

Tripod: Sachtler ACE M  - 600$

Lenses: Sigma 18-35 1.8 - 800$ + Zeiss contax 50mm 1.7+ 85mm 1.4 - about 800$ (when you have more money get the 21mm and 35mm contax as well). 

Vocas MB210 mattebox or similar - 350$

Lanparte Follow focus - 450$

Base plate: shoot35 or used zacuto mini baseplate - 150-200$ 

Shoulderpad: Redrock micro or similar - 200$ (get it used if possible) 

Handels: a few good brands: 200$ (get them used if u can)

Battery pinch + battery - 500$

Some bits and pieces (Rods, Israeli arm etc) - 300$

External mic - Sennheiser MKE 600 + some sound Accessories + Zoom H4n - 700$

Extrnal SDI Monitor or EVF ( Samurai Blade or Cineroid) - 1000$

Used 1K and 300W Fresnel + some LED light - about 900$

 

Total - Nice package for 10K  :)


Edited by Oron Cohen, 06 April 2014 - 04:04 PM.

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#9 Darmon Moore

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:59 PM

For narrative work I'd def pass on the FS700, it's a great camera but less for narrative. 

 

For 10K my initial list will be slightly different, I will go for: 

Camera: Blackmagic 4K -  3000$

Tripod: Sachtler ACE M  - 600$

Lenses: Sigma 18-35 1.8 - 800$ + Zeiss contax 50mm 1.7+ 85mm 1.4 - about 800$ (when you have more money get the 21mm and 35mm contax as well). 

Vocas MB210 mattebox or similar - 350$

Lanparte Follow focus - 450$

Base plate: shoot35 or used zacuto mini baseplate - 150-200$ 

Shoulderpad: Redrock micro or similar - 200$ (get it used if possible) 

Handels: a few good brands: 200$ (get them used if u can)

Battery pinch + battery - 500$

Some bits and pieces (Rods, Israeli arm etc) - 300$

External mic - Sennheiser MKE 600 + some sound Accessories + Zoom H4n - 700$

Extrnal SDI Monitor or EVF ( Samurai Blade or Cineroid) - 1000$

Used 1K and 300W Fresnel + some LED light - about 900$

 

Total - Nice package for 10K  :)

 

Wow that is a nice list! talk about a set up.


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#10 Freya Black

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 06:25 AM

That's a great list Oron! :)

 

For narrative work I'd def pass on the FS700, it's a great camera but less for narrative. 

 

Not sure why you would say that. I think it's an amazing camera for narrative stuff but when you have a budget of $10000 I think there is a question as to whether you would want to spend so much of that budget on a camera, given that cameras depreciate so rapidly. It might be better to have more lenses or lighting instead, or a better tripod as these things will still be useful after the camera is ready for the dustbin. I actually feel that about the blackmagic 4K too. Is it really worth the extra over a blackmagic pocket? It's a bit of a question. It does have the advantage of coming with the full version of resolve as I remember, which is not to be sniffed at but all the same.

 

The FS700 is especially nice as it has really good slow-mo and balanced XLR connectors with phantom power. You have to pay a price for that tho. I think a lot of it depends on how you are intending to be working.

 

Freya


Edited by Freya Black, 07 April 2014 - 06:26 AM.

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#11 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:35 AM

4K also has a larger sensor, though at present moment it is suffering from some serous sensor problems. This may or may not be due to the sensor calibration or the way it's recording it's pro-res-- but in either case I don't think it's quite ready for work just yet. Pocket is closer to production ready, though the purple grid you get can be a major issue if you're not careful (and hard to see on set, though fixable, kind of in post, and may not exist in Raw.I keep meaning to test this; but haven't had a chance/reason to. )


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#12 Darmon Moore

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

4K also has a larger sensor, though at present moment it is suffering from some serous sensor problems. This may or may not be due to the sensor calibration or the way it's recording it's pro-res-- but in either case I don't think it's quite ready for work just yet. Pocket is closer to production ready, though the purple grid you get can be a major issue if you're not careful (and hard to see on set, though fixable, kind of in post, and may not exist in Raw.I keep meaning to test this; but haven't had a chance/reason to. )

 

What about the 2.5k verion ( in terms of production ready )


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#13 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:22 AM

I am not a fan of the 2.5K  personally due to the odd sensor size which, for me, makes lensing difficult. One could resolve this witha metabones speed booster, but I am not a fan of that personally. I did use the 2.5K on 2 features, in RAW, and if you can get the right rigging and power (Vmount or Gold Mount) solutions for it; along with an SDI EVF with passthrough, and handle the data overheads,then it's a fine little camera. A bit bulks, though-- of course nothing like a full cinema camera.


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#14 Oron Cohen

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:25 AM

That's a great list Oron! :)

 

 

Not sure why you would say that. I think it's an amazing camera for narrative stuff but when you have a budget of $10000 I think there is a question as to whether you would want to spend so much of that budget on a camera, given that cameras depreciate so rapidly. It might be better to have more lenses or lighting instead, or a better tripod as these things will still be useful after the camera is ready for the dustbin. I actually feel that about the blackmagic 4K too. Is it really worth the extra over a blackmagic pocket? It's a bit of a question. It does have the advantage of coming with the full version of resolve as I remember, which is not to be sniffed at but all the same.

 

The FS700 is especially nice as it has really good slow-mo and balanced XLR connectors with phantom power. You have to pay a price for that tho. I think a lot of it depends on how you are intending to be working.

 

Freya

Hey Freya, 

 

Thanks! I guess I had all the bits and pieces in my head as I own big chunk of them. 

 

As for the FS700, I filmed FS700, FS100 a lot. those cameras are great but I feel the look of the image, which I have really hard time to put in words is not as cinematic as the Blackmagic cameras, I think it might got something to do with the highlights rolloff on the sony vs blackmagic, blackmagic looks more filmic and organic to my eyes, sony clips too fast.

I also I feel Apple Prores 422 on board recording for a filmmaker is a killer feature and a big advantage, no need for expensive external recorders to record your image, couple that with the fact the blackmagic cost about half the price, and you'll see where I'm coming from...(I hope). 


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#15 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 09:28 AM

An interesting new option is the Sony A7 which apparently has SLog Gamma 2... and an ISO up to 409,000.... and 4K-- but then again may not be worth it. AJA is brigning to market a 4K camera, the CION, which looks nice, for around 9K for the body which may work out to be a good investment and coming out with enough time to save up money for.


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#16 Oron Cohen

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:13 AM

 

What about the 2.5k verion ( in terms of production ready )

Hi Darmon,

 

I see you're Australian, so to get a Blackmagic camera serviced should be fairly easy.

 

The Balckmagic 4K got some issues with small portions of cameras, but overall most issues are software related and are not major. Worst come to worst they could always replace the camera for you.

I mean for the price, this thing is unbeatable and as you saw from my list, will leave you plenty of cash to spend on other stuff.

 

On a side note, I did put all the prices as if you're from the US, I know Aussieland is more expensive for some of the stuff I listed. 


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#17 Darmon Moore

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:40 AM

Hi Darmon,

 

I see you're Australian, so to get a Blackmagic camera serviced should be fairly easy.

 

The Balckmagic 4K got some issues with small portions of cameras, but overall most issues are software related and are not major. Worst come to worst they could always replace the camera for you.

I mean for the price, this thing is unbeatable and as you saw from my list, will leave you plenty of cash to spend on other stuff.

 

On a side note, I did put all the prices as if you're from the US, I know Aussieland is more expensive for some of the stuff I listed. 

 

Yeah your list is looking very nice, I mean with the right kit (all the bits and bobs) the BMCC image looks fantastic!

 

P.S i'm moving to london soon


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#18 Freya Black

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:36 PM


P.S i'm moving to london soon

 

Yikes! ;)

 

It's a shame Phil is in Vegas right now! :)

 

Freya


Edited by Freya Black, 07 April 2014 - 12:37 PM.

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#19 Freya Black

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 12:38 PM

I also I feel Apple Prores 422 on board recording for a filmmaker is a killer feature and a big advantage, no need for expensive external recorders to record your image, couple that with the fact the blackmagic cost about half the price, and you'll see where I'm coming from...(I hope). 

 

Yes ProRes is definitely a good feature. Sony are even bringing it to the F5/F55 soon.

 

Freya


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#20 Freya Black

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:10 PM

Said everything was going to change:

 

http://www.blackmagi.../blackmagicursa

 

$5,995

 

Freya


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