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Blackmagic Cintel Film Scanner....
85 replies to this topic
Posted 07 April 2014 - 10:43 AM
You at NAB, Rob? I'm heading out today and I'm planning to check this thing out tomorrow. My first take, based on a long history with BMD:
1) It's probably not done. According to the press release: "later in 2014 once all the NAB customer feedback has been included into the product" -- so, yeah, not done.
2) It's not likely to ship anywhere near that timeframe. Maybe next NAB? If it's inside a glass box at their booth and they don't have a model with platters spinning, then make that NAB 2016!
3) They spent an awful lot of time making it look pretty on the wall. Sure, we have more wall space than floor space right now, but it feels like they're marketing it as something you'd hang in your living room. I'm more concerned with the total lack of specs than how pretty it is. Check the photo out: http://images.blackm...scannerhero.jpg
4) Doesn't look like it handles audio, at least from the pictures
Don't get me wrong - I'm all for disruptive technology like this and I can't wait to see what it'll do to pricing on other scanners. But I'm not holding my breath on this. They still haven't implemented Teranex features they announced 3 years ago at NAB... Last year it was "3 months from now."
Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:16 AM
Not going to NAB I can drink at home..;-) I mean see the stuff online.... Have work to do this week...
1. Definitely not done.
2. Definitely not shipping soon.
3. No specs indeed, film scanning is easier said than done especially with print, and it is probably a "4K" BMD camera with a film transport
4. No idea but it probably reads analog audio by machine vision, I would think.
We all know that BMD is good at bringing out new disruptive products and lousy at follow through on making them fully functional.
This will drive the price of scanning down, a bit and I am not sure if it's good for the lab or not maybe there will be more demand for film. Maybe we will buy one and offer 'BMD" scans along with our Xena machines, which I think will produce higher quality than the BMD machine, just not as fast.
Time will tell...
Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:39 AM
If it brings down the price of film scanning, all the better. The part of film production that is most costly (from my standpoint) is the scanning. Everything else in my chain is easier to find deals on.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:54 AM
Depends on what you're looking for and who you're asking. There are a lot of places that are sticking to the old models of very high minimum order sizes, very costly per-foot or per-frame rates, etc. And then there are those that aren't, in part because the most recent generation of film scanners required a much lower capital investment. In the past year, the pricing for scanning has already started to come down significantly, you just need to look around to find the deals.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 11:58 AM
I keep hearing this, Perry, but I never seem to find those deals. I always manage to find houses that are stuck in 1980 and dont realize that their condescending attitude and inflexibility is killing their industry. Do they not see that people can shoot 4k video for the cost of making a short on 16mm? I'm not trying to be a jerk but I have been a big proponent of film but I am not supportive of many of the people in the chain behind it. I believe that even now, many people would still want to shoot film rather than video. But it is cost prohibitive and practically a joke when there is so much available at your fingertips for low prices.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:00 PM
Well first of this is truly great news, almost a miracle. The web has been pretty wide spread since 1995 and now in 2014 we finally get a Telecine/Scanner manufacturer that actually lists it's price on the front page – that's at least, worth a small hallelujah.
Now, Matthew I totally agree with you, if I remember correctly I brought up many similar points. When the news broke about BMD acquiring Cintel. Post houses attitudes, have been relay poor especially in Europe, as long as I can remember. But now the wait is finally over.
I can actually make a budget item for scanning, without being forced to jump through hopes, like some kind of domesticated animal.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:20 PM
I have been trying to drive the cost of scanning down here at Cinelab with low minimums and decent rates, the old model of $200 drive layoff fees and $300 minimums should be over.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:37 PM
Robert, tell me what your lab would charge me for 14,000ft of 16mm with a 2k scan? I saw your advertised rates per hour but I don't know how lab time equates to actual footage, as I have never gotten a film scan but only done telecine to this point.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:48 PM
We could do a 2K Pin registered scan to DPX and ProRes444 for about $0.30/ft or $4200.00 for 14,000ft.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:50 PM
TY Robert for your time. Still proves that scanning is the bottleneck. I have shortends that I got for .10/ft, can get processing for the same or less, and scanning is more than both of those together.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:57 PM
Were you asking about 16mm? 35mm would basically be half that. also we have our new Color camera Xena about to be running and we could probably get 16mm to about $0.20/ft for DPX and ProRes444 and maybe less if we do the processing.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:59 PM
Looks an awful lot like a wall mounted ScanStation to me.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:09 PM
Yeah it's a color camera system and I can see it being on offer for $0.10/ft. at full speed for ungraded scans. Allot to be seen about the machine and BMD evidently just has prototypes at NAB.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:12 PM
There really is no competing with the Xena or Director if you want the absolute best possible scan. But, many people won't care for the best. They'll just want good.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 02:21 PM
It's true David, also there are still allot of questions to be answered about the new Cintel machine, stuff like what the frame rates are for stabilized scanning and mechanical pin registered scanning. What formats does it scan to? DPX? ProRes444? I would think that the 24fps realtime scan is like a telecine without stabilization but there are no specs yet.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:27 PM
Given that it is based on proven Cintel technology, I think that it will be a winner. If they can bring it in at or around that price point, again, a winner. With the Ursa camera just announced and the fact that it is sensor upgradeable, I think that a 4:3 chip is in the near future that will be for both the camera and the scanner. Maybe it will do DPX and ProRes simultaneously, but I think CinemaDNG and ProREs are more likely. All the ingredients are there for Black magic to have a hit.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:36 PM
I tend to think that it will be a fine device. But, other than the diffuse light source they reference, it doesn't look like it's going to have a whole lot in common with any proven control technology. But, thankfully, it sounds like it will be based in industry standard proven technologies of the last few years.
Posted 07 April 2014 - 07:37 PM
iPhone auto corrected. That should say Cintel not control. Sigh. iPhone!
Posted 07 April 2014 - 08:16 PM
I just talked to the Xena guy who took a look at the BMD Cintel machine, he says it looks nice and it basically a re imagined Cintel Ditto scanner with a UHD (Not cinema 4K) sensor (I think the BMD Production camera) with a diffuse LED light source. They had prototypes with very simple software running and only a 35mm gate, the 16mm gate is not built yet and it seems that the sensor and lens are fixed so 16mm is a cutout on the sensor (now maybe it will change in the future) and it is dual sprocket drive.