Jump to content


Photo

Mole Richardson LED Fresnels?

Mole Richardson Fresnel LED Lighting

  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1050 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:11 AM

Hi guys,

 

Just wondering if anyone has had any real contact with the new Mole LED Fresnels yet?

 

I'm very interested in getting a couple of the 400w Studio Juniors in daylight - photometrically they're basically equivalent to 575w HMI fresnels (without the bulb changes or worrying about ballasts) but MUCH cheaper (half the price of an Arri D5), and with the added benefits of full dimmability (without colour-shift) and no real issues with flicker for high framerate work.

 

All of which should make them a really useful light IMO.

 

I'd love to hear some feedback from anyone who's used them (particularly the daylight versions, and particularly how the colour rendering is on skin).

 

Cheers,

 

Mark


Edited by Mark Kenfield, 08 May 2014 - 08:12 AM.

  • 0

#2 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11936 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:11 PM

The concern with LED is always colorimetry. They may not shift when dimming, but they may well be fairly well shifted to begin with...

 

CRI is not an adequate way to characterise LEDs, and 90 is barely an adequate CRI for a continuous-spectrum source, let alone a discontinuous one such as an LED. Have they published TLCI data? Either way, I suspect it's perfectly usable for many things, but don't assume it's as accurate as an HMI or tungsten.

 

Also, do they have fans? I know at least some of the Mole range do. How noisy are they, if so?

 

P


  • 0

#3 Stuart Brereton

Stuart Brereton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3057 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:32 PM

Haven't used the Moles yet, but I used one of the Arri equivalents (an L7) a few weeks back on a commercial. I was impressed with the output, and the ability to change the CT was handy. We had no problems with colorimetry, although our subject was not color critical.

 

All in all, I was impressed, but not blown away, and I'd want to see how useful they were under a much wider (and harsher) range of conditions.


  • 0

#4 Stuart Allman

Stuart Allman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 179 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Diego, CA

Posted 08 May 2014 - 02:55 PM

Mark,

 

Here is a link to a blog article I wrote with measurements on various fixtures we had in the shop - including one of the mole daylight fresnels.

 

http://videogearsand...ly-perform.html

 

The CCT was good at 5500K and CRI was 91, but the CIE color coordinates indicated that the light runs a bit magenta with respect to a true D55 illuminant.  You can look at the results and make your own judgment.  I think this was on a junior fixture(?), but I don't recall exactly.  It might have been the baby.

 

Alternatively, I used the Hive plasma lights this last weekend and really liked the results.  Given the choice (and budget) I would personally choose plasma over HMI or LED.

 

Hope this info helps. 

 

Stuart


  • 0

#5 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11936 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 May 2014 - 05:27 PM

Have they been able to produce a higher power single plasma device?

 

The problem with big LEDs is that they're inevitably multi-junction - in fact everything over a very few watts is multi-junction, but the really big hundred-watt-plus devices often end up being arrays of arrays. The bigger Hive plasmas are also arrays, with all the problems that creates with shadows and reflections.

 

P


  • 0

#6 Stuart Allman

Stuart Allman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 179 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Diego, CA

Posted 08 May 2014 - 05:58 PM

Define "high power"(?)  I used the "Killer" light and it put out a lot of light for my purpose even with bleached muslin diffusion.  You can gang two of them together on a frame to make a maxi type light.  No, they don't make a 24k HMI Fresnel equivalent but I haven't had a use nor budget for something that size...much less rolling in a generator truck!  That, and plasmas are well balanced to daylight whereas the HMI's I've measured have typically been 6100-6400K, despite manufacturer claims.

 

I used the "Wasp" PAR to punch through a window and provide a hair light on our talent on a SoCal sunny day.  It puts out quite a bit of light as well.  Everything was powered via normal household sockets in a residential house.

 

Each fixture uses a single plasma bulb, not an array.  Obviously there are two fixtures on the "killer".

 

I just want to make it clear that I am NOT affiliated with Hive and I'm not trying to sell anyone anything.  These are solely my opinions based on using the lights in a real world production.  I do blog for a local rental house that rents these lights, but they will gladly rent anyone tungsten, HMI, LED, fluorescent, or whatever you want.  I use it all, based on needs of the production.


  • 0

#7 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11936 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 May 2014 - 07:15 PM

Sure, I've got no problem with it - just that the real desire for a lot of people is something like a 2.5K HMI (which we can run from household power here) which a cluster of several plasmas... well, sort of almost does. The issue being that if you want soft light you can do fluorescent or large LED arrays or whatever, whereas a big, daylight, point source is something that's really only done by HMI - and increasingly LED.

 

P


  • 0

#8 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1050 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 08 May 2014 - 10:19 PM

Mark,
 
Here is a link to a blog article I wrote with measurements on various fixtures we had in the shop - including one of the mole daylight fresnels.
 
http://videogearsand...ly-perform.html
 
The CCT was good at 5500K and CRI was 91, but the CIE color coordinates indicated that the light runs a bit magenta with respect to a true D55 illuminant.  You can look at the results and make your own judgment.  I think this was on a junior fixture(?), but I don't recall exactly.  It might have been the baby.
 
Alternatively, I used the Hive plasma lights this last weekend and really liked the results.  Given the choice (and budget) I would personally choose plasma over HMI or LED.
 
Hope this info helps. 
 
Stuart


Thanks Stuart, they're very helpful tests.

Obviously a plasma unit is the pick of the bunch in this kind of daylight fresnel, but the plasma is twice the price of one of these 400w Moles, and a 575w HMI is too. So you can get two of the Moles for the price of a single alternative.

The Moles are also big, but no bigger than a 575w HMI + ballast, and it has the added benefit of being a self contained fixture, so should setup and pack down a bit quicker.

I guess (as always) it's a trade off between price and performance. The Mole certainly seems to win out on versatility and ease of use (the dimming goes a long way on that front), and it demolishes the others on price, but the colour isn't quite perfect (sounds like it's 'good' but not perfect).

For the guys who have used them - would you have any hesitations using them directly on talent?
  • 0

#9 Stuart Allman

Stuart Allman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 179 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Diego, CA

Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:19 PM

Mark,

 

The "Wasp" and "Killer" are self/yoke contained units, but you are absolutely right. They are both significantly bigger than the Mole LED fixture.  The shop has both in rental.  I'll be writing about the "Wasp" and "Bee" lights on the videogearsandiego.blogspot.com blog over the next two weeks.  I already did a technical post about the "Killer."  You can also see screen shots of the FS-700 with the Hive lights on my personal blog in my signature.  I just wish I had that MK350 handheld spectrometer back.  It's a great analysis tool to double check vendor performance claims.

 

Stuart

------------------------------

illuma.blogspot.com 


  • 0

#10 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1050 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

Cheers Stuart, really interested to hear your thoughts on the 'Bee'. Price-wise it jumps right back in contention with the Mole.

Obviously as simple flood light it doesn't offer the same level of control, but as a nice full-spectrum daylight source to key through diff or balance out daylight coming through windows, I think it could be hugely useful.
  • 0

#11 andrew ward

andrew ward
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 269 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 10 May 2014 - 07:42 AM

Plasma sucks arse
  • -1

#12 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1050 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:46 AM

Plasma sucks arse

 

How so?


  • 1

#13 Stuart Allman

Stuart Allman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 179 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Diego, CA

Posted 10 May 2014 - 03:18 PM

I'll be blogging about it the week after next on the Video Gear blog.  The kit we had came with a set of scrims, lenses, and barn doors, so it's a little more versatile with those items included.  All of those items are just standard Arri 6.5" size.  I think I ended up scrim-ing the light down a stop.  Aside from the price, what I like is that the color temperature is tunable from 4500K-14000K so you can handle daylight to moonlight with a point source light and no gels.  It's also a bit smaller, with the caveat that it uses an external ballast that has to sit somewhere at the foot of a c-stand.  I told the sales rep that they should make a holder or bag that can go up on the stand so I don't have to drag the ballast around anytime I need to move the stand.  Other than that, it was daylight and a good little fill light.  When I set the knob to 5600K I didn't notice any color difference between it and the other two fixtures that have fixed 5600K color.

 

I haven't had a chance to take the Mole Fresnel out of the shop yet.  I played with it briefly and it appear to be robustly built, as you would expect from a Mole product.  The spectrum shows that the LED they chose does better in cyan and deep red than most of the LED fixtures I've measured.  However, I haven't had a chance to measure the Arri light yet.  (Hey Arri rep...wanna send me an eval kit? :)  The Fiilex LED kit the shop owns is pretty anemic on light output, but uses a multi-die LED package like I believe Arri L-series does.  I'm going to take that out next week on a doc shoot up in Venice Beach.  The multi-die solutions are *supposed* to have better CRI and spectrums.


  • 0

#14 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1050 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Australia/Wherever The Wind Takes Me

Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:45 AM

Cheers, well post up a link to blog post for it when you have it. I'll definitely be keen to read it.
  • 0

#15 Stuart Allman

Stuart Allman
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 179 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Diego, CA

Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:20 PM

Mark, I'll post the 2nd of three technical overviews today on the videogearsandiego.blogspot.com site.  Today's subject will the Wasp.  I'll post about the Bee next weekend.


  • 0



Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Opal

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

CineLab

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Abel Cine

CineTape

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Paralinx LLC