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Night Shoot need lighting advice


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#1 Sam C Roberts

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 08:01 PM

I have a night scene that takes place under a lamp post on a rural highway. I need to reproduce the light coming from above and am looking for about a 30ft spread over the road. I need a light with enough footcandles to allow me to work at around f/4 at iso 320 (Red One Camera) The light would be on a scissor lift that can go up about 30 to 35 feet. Of course the light will need to be able to operate at almost a 90 degree angle pointing down.

 

Any suggestions on a fixture and lamp keeping in mind that being able to run off a 20 amp residential outlet would make life a lot easier and cheaper but if I need more juice to get that 30ft spread from 30ft up at f/4 I will rent a genny.

 

Thanks.

Sam


Edited by Sam C Roberts, 10 May 2014 - 08:04 PM.

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#2 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 10:37 PM

An Arri T1 will give you 13 fc at 30ft full flood. A 1k is the biggest tungsten lamp that you can reliably run off house power. That equates to about t2.4 as 320 ISO. If you're looking for a white light look, tungsten will be fine. If you're looking for a Sodium look, then you'll need gels, which will soak up some of that output, and might mean a bigger lamp, and therefore a genny. If you want a mercury vapor look, you might be better off using a daylight lamp to start with and adding gels to that.

 

One question. Why are you rating the RED at 320 ISO? Is it an original RED One? If it's actually an MX, there's no reason not to rate it at 500-800 ISO


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#3 Sam C Roberts

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 12:31 PM

Thank you Stuart. No it is the orginal RED ONE with the original chip (obsolescence made obsoblete :angry: ) and rating it higher, esepcially at night makes the blacks turn to mush.

 

I have been on a couple of shoots where we used 2 LTM HMI 1.5K Pars which are great as far as light output to power input goes and I did plug them both into 20amp residential service at the same time with no problems. But they are spotty and  using the fresnel lenses that come with them cuts the light substancially.

 

So it looks like I'll have to rent a generator and if that's the case what do you recommend as far as HMI's go? I want an HMI for that cold bluish look which I can get during color correction without making the smaller tungsten 1ks look too orangy.

 

thanks again

Sam


Edited by Sam C Roberts, 11 May 2014 - 12:33 PM.

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#4 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 01:25 PM

If you're going HMI, then why not try an Arri X12? It has a nice even field of illumination, and it's only 1.2kw so you can run it from house power.


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#5 Sam C Roberts

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 01:04 AM

great thanks, I'll check it out


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#6 Miguel Angel

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 09:16 AM

Hi!

Have you thought about using a M18? It can be plugged into a house and it will give you a lot of power at night. 

 

http://www.arri.com/...s/m_series/m18/

 

Kindest regards.


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#7 Guy Holt

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 05:41 AM

I need a light with enough footcandles to allow me to work at around f/4 at iso 320 (Red One Camera) The light would be on a scissor lift that can go up about 30 to 35 feet. Of course the light will need to be able to operate at almost a 90 degree angle pointing down…if I need more juice to get that 30ft spread from 30ft up at f/4 I will rent a genny.

 

The problem I see with the suggestions so far is that none of them are designed to point straight down – very few lights are. If the light is not designed for it, you will quickly melt the reflector of the light which will be quite expensive in the case of the ARRIMAX reflector of the M18 suggested.

 

BlackIrishfilmstrip1lg.JPG 

 

I faced a very similar situation several years ago for a scene for a “low budget” feature called "Black Irish." It was a pivotal scene where the youngest son of an Irish American patriarch crashes his derelict older brother's car setting off an unfortunate series of events. For the scene we had to light 1000 ft of Marginal Street in Chelsea for driving shots on a process trailer and the scene of the accident. Our biggest challenge was to light enough roadway so that the car could reach a high speed.

 

BlackIrishfilmstrip2lg.JPG

 

To light the long stretch of road, I simulated the pools of light that would be created by street lights by rigging 6kw space lights under the baskets of 60' condors that were spaced about 200' apart over the road. In addition to the Space Light, each condor basket also carried a 4k HMI Par that filled the stretches of road between the pools of tungsten light with a cool moonlight.

 

BlackIrishfilmstrip5lg.JPG

 

To continue the moonlight down the road there was yet another 4k HMI Par on a Mambo Combo Stand. I used 6kw space lights to simulate the street lamps because they are one of the few lights that can be burned in a straight downward position. Another that might work is a 5k Skypan (see photo-metrics below.)

 

5k_Skypan_Combined.jpg

 

Of course you won’t be able to power either of these lights off a standard 20 Amp circuit, but now a days you won’t have to use a diesel tow plant like we did back then because I have developed a new HD Plug-n-Play Pkg. that enables the paralleling of two Honda EU6500 inverter generators to generate 100 Amps of power. A complete system consists of two modified Honda EU6500s, a Paralleling Control Box, and one of our Transformer/Distros (either 60- or 84- Amps.)

 

Paralleling_Copy_HMI_Reverse_Master.jpg

(Parallel operation of two Honda EU6500 generators made possible by our

new Paralleling Control Box)

 

The generators require modification to interface with the Paralleling Control Box, which syncs the frequency and equalizes the load between the generators. Our proprietary paralleling control circuitry uses the Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) of the generator's inverters to control the load sharing. The phase angles of the two generators are synchronized using open loop architecture. The final function of our control box is to switch the outputs of the inverters to a common bus after their frequencies are locked in step (same phase angle and time base.)

 

Paralleling_Copy_HMI_Master.jpg

(As demonstrated here, our new HD Plug-n-Play Paralleling System can power a

6K HMI as well as 2-2k and 2-1k Fresnels)

 

To provide power that is readily accessible in industry standard outlets, our Paralleling Control Box is outfitted with both a 240V Bates receptacle, as well as a "Hollywood Style" 240V Twist-lock receptacle. The 240V Bates pocket is there to power larger HMIs than has ever been possible before on Hondas (4k - 9k ARRIMAXs.) The "Hollywood Style" 240V Twist-lock receptacle is there to supply power to either our 60- or 84- Amp Transformer/Distro. The Transformer/Distro serves several important functions in this system that enables two EU6500s to be paralleled, but its' primary function is to step-down the combined 240V output of the two generators into a single large 120V circuit (either 60- or 84- Amps) that is capable of powering more small lights like the 6 – 1kw globes of a Spacelite or a larger 120V light like a 5k Skypan (it can power up to 10k Quartz). Each of our Transformer/Distros is likewise outfitted with an industry standard 120V Bates receptacle so that you can use standard distro equipment, like Bates Siameses, Extensions, and Break-Out boxes to distribute power around your set, breaking out to U-Ground Edison Outlets where ever needed.

 

Paralleling_Copy_HMI_MidShot.jpg

Our 60A Transformer/Distro provides 120V power to smaller lights while a

6K HMI operates at 240V)

An added benefit to using a Transformer/Distro to distribute the combined power of the two generators is that, no matter where you plug into the Transformer/Distro on its' secondary side, it automatically balances the load on the generator's two legs (which is critical for successful paralleling of two machines – use this link for details.) This feature also makes electrical distribution on set incredibly simple: you just plug in lights until one of the generator's load indicators reads 6000 Watts and the Transformer/Distro does the rest. But, the most important benefit to be gained by using a Transformer/Distro, the one that makes it possible to parallel two EU6500s in the first place, is that it isolates the generators from high neutral return currents that can lead to dangerous neutral “cross-current” between the two generators that can overheat their inverters (use this link for more details.)

 

By reducing the dangerous neutral “cross-current” created by two generators operating in parallel, our Transformer/Distros make it possible to operate more lights, or larger lights, on portable Hondas than has ever been possible before. Given the high sensitivity of HD camera systems these days, just about all the light you will need to obtain good production values can now be operated on our new HD Plug-n-Play Pkg. Use this link for more details.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lighting Rental & Sales in Boston


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#8 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:29 AM

So, could you parallel two domestic mains sockets using some sort of transformer arrangement?

 

I think you could...


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#9 Miguel Angel

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 08:21 AM

Fantastic answer Guy, as always. 

 

I didn't know that very few lights were able to work when putting them in a 90º angle, would you have by any chance a little list or something like that that you would like to share on the forum? :) 

 

Thanks again and I hope Sam C Roberts got the answer he was looking for!

 

Kindest regards.


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