Jump to content


Photo

Developing negative as reversal

negative reversal lab developing Europe

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 772 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 27 May 2014 - 01:06 PM

Hello, 

 

I have navigated through the forum to see if this question was answered before and I have not found anything, if somebody thinks that the question was already answered, please, let me know as I was not able to find any thread. 

 

So, I am preparing a project which is going to be shot on 35mm and I would like to cross process negative as reversal stock as it is something I have done before when shooting stills. 

 

I know usually people go the other way around and I know that it would be much easier.

 

However, I want to achieve certain tones in the city I am going to shoot at that can only be achieved with that kind of processing and I do not know if it is possible to go that way in cinema labs. 

 

I have talked with some labs in Europe and they do not know where I can process negative as reversal.

If somebody has done this before, would you mind sharing the contact details of the lab where you processed it and some info you might consider interesting? 

 

Thank you very much. 

 

Kindest regards.

 

 


  • 0

#2 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1585 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 27 May 2014 - 09:24 PM

Color or B&W?

 

I do not know of anyone who has successfully cross processed ECN to Reversal.


  • 0

#3 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 772 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 28 May 2014 - 05:50 AM

Hi Robert. 

 

Color. 

 

I have done it before in still photography.

C41 to E6 and then scan the slide. 

 

It produces lovely images at night :) 

 

Thanks!


  • 0

#4 John Salim

John Salim
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Other
  • Essex, UK

Posted 28 May 2014 - 06:58 AM

I do occasionally cross process C-41 films through E-6 for clients, but always recommend they push the film at least a stop and a half to help blow away the orange mask, otherwise you end up with a positive image with an overall dark blue bias.

 

It always helps to test various emulsions too. I remember cross processing some Agfa colour neg once ( can't remember the type ) and it came out looking like poor quality 'normal' colour transparencies !

 

Reversal through negative process is definitely the best route.

 

John S :rolleyes: 


  • 1

#5 Joerg Polzfusz

Joerg Polzfusz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 123 posts
  • Other

Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:30 AM

Mr. Wachsmuth has tested developing Vision3 as reversal (in Super8):

http://www.filmkorn....tiv-entwickeln/


  • 1

#6 David Cunningham

David Cunningham
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1049 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:17 AM

That's a pretty awesome look actually! I wonder if we could convince Spectra, Wayne's or Pro8mm to do this.
  • 0

#7 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 772 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:26 AM

This is what I am after. 

 

I shot this on Fuji Superia (C41 process) and processed it with E6 process.

In fact I shot it as part of a short - film which had to be created with stills. 

 

Robert, you might be familiar with it as I asked David if he knew any lab in Europe able to cross process that way. 

 

Thanks for that tip Joerg! I already wrote a post on his web site. 

Waiting for a reply! :)

 

Kindest regards.

 

ALittleStoryOfTwoGuys.jpg


  • 0

#8 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7118 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 28 May 2014 - 09:58 AM

I doubt you'll find any lab to do this I am almost positive you'd get into issue with the remjet.


  • 1

#9 Robert Houllahan

Robert Houllahan
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1585 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Providence R.I.

Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:48 AM

You would have to find a lab that runs multiple processes in the same machine, so a lab that runs E6 and ECN in the same machine so they can run the Rem-Jet buffer stack before developer. We have individual machines for each process (B&W-R, B&W neg, ECN, ECP ) and we don't develop Ektachrome but our B&W Neg machine was an Ektachrome machine in a past life.


  • 1

#10 John Salim

John Salim
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 182 posts
  • Other
  • Essex, UK

Posted 28 May 2014 - 10:50 AM

You would have to find a lab that runs multiple processes in the same machine, so a lab that runs E6 and ECN in the same machine so they can run the Rem-Jet buffer stack before developer. We have individual machines for each process (B&W-R, B&W neg, ECN, ECP ) and we don't develop Ektachrome but our B&W Neg machine was an Ektachrome machine in a past life.

 

Absolutely right Robert - you beat me to it, the processor would have to have a rem-jet removal unit.

 

JS ;)


Edited by John Salim, 28 May 2014 - 10:52 AM.

  • 1

#11 Friedemann Wachsmuth

Friedemann Wachsmuth
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Other
  • Hamburg, Germany

Posted 28 May 2014 - 03:18 PM

I talked to some labs in Europe -- no interest. It's too messy and volume too low, so it remains a DIY method.
BTW different stock gives different results. Vision 3 200T worked great, Vision 3 500T was disappointing. Some older Vision 100T stock (pro8mm) failed almost completely.

 

In any case, you want to have colorful, contrasty motives for good results. Get out your Lomo tanks, its fun!!


  • 1

#12 Friedemann Wachsmuth

Friedemann Wachsmuth
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Other
  • Hamburg, Germany

Posted 28 May 2014 - 03:26 PM

Thanks for that tip Joerg! I already wrote a post on his web site. 
Waiting for a reply! :)


Hey Miguel,

I did that at home in my Lomo tank -- it was quite some trial and error. Few quick facts here since I don't have time right now to translate the whole thing:

- Use Vision 3 200T
- Expose it as 50 ASA
- Develop Push +1 Stop (2 minutes more in FD)
- Be prepared for manual remjet removal (messy)

Your result will

- have lower contrast overall
- have a apricot-ish base
- have odd, mellow colors, nice for skin
- be very sharp

Don't cut it together with normal reversal stock, than it looks great in projection. Very special at least. :)
  • 1

#13 David Cunningham

David Cunningham
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1049 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 May 2014 - 07:06 PM

The next question then comes archival stability. Anyone have any idea the effects of processing ECN-2 as E6 on archival stability?
  • 0

#14 Miguel Angel

Miguel Angel
  • Sustaining Members
  • 772 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Spain / Ireland / South Africa

Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:03 AM

Thank you very much Friedemann!

 

If I get to know a lab around the world which is up to doing this, I'll post it. 

 

Kindest regards!


  • 0



Visual Products

Metropolis Post

Paralinx LLC

CineTape

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

Wooden Camera

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Opal

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Opal

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Willys Widgets

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

Aerial Filmworks

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc