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LED or HMI. Which is brightest

HMI LED

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#1 Tom Lawes

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 08:15 AM

Hello

 

We're shooting a UK feature in the autumn on RED with a low but not a micro budget. We already have several 600 LED panels, red heads and various other smaller tungsten lights. On days when we shoot on big sets we'll hire a gaffer with a truck full of lights, however, to keep the cost down I'd like to permanently equip us with a very bright light source we can use to shine through windows to illuminate interiors. We may also need brighter lights for exterior fill and night shoots.

 

Have any of you used these large LED panels?

 

http://www.expandore...hts/D100CTD.htm

 

We could buy two of these for the same price as an Arri M18 with the added advantage of battery power.

 

Which would you recommend?

 

Thanks

Tom


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#2 Andrés Lasry Moreno

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:48 AM

Hello Tom,

The panel shown is just 100W power, also it's a flood panel. You can't compare them with the Arrimax 1800W (We are talking about 980000 Lux in a Spot configuration with 1.8KW HMI bulb and in a spot configuration versus 2900 lux from the LED panel).


However you can save money if you want, have a look the NILA range.

Regards,
Andres.
 


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#3 Tom Lawes

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:31 PM

Thanks for that. So basically, even if we diffuse the HMI through some scrim, you think it will be much brighter than two large led panels?


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#4 Andrés Lasry Moreno

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:43 PM

Yes, they are in differents leagues. The max reflector works really good and also is a 1.8KW (don't forget that you will need a ballast, which is expensive too)

Cheers!
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#5 Chad Griepentrog

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 02:37 AM

The M18 is an incredible light. Being able to run off a 20amp circuit is mind-boggling. They're actually about as bright as a 2.5k HMI. Go for this light for sure.
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#6 Tom Lawes

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:37 AM

Thanks all for your advice. You're beginning to convince me I need the M18!

 

Does this light come with a ballast or do I need to buy that separately? Can I also use it off a regular 13amp UK power socket?

 

http://www.digibroad...CFfMgtAodugkATQ


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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 03:51 AM

You can run up to 3k on a UK power socket, just be careful about the over all load on each circuit.

Looks rather like the ballast is extra.


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#8 Andrés Lasry Moreno

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 06:26 AM

You can plug in a regular 13amp UK socket without problems, the 1.2/1.8 ballast's nominal current is between 10 and 13 amps.

 

If you want the M18 you need a complete KIT (you will need the lamp head, the ballast, the bulb and also a plug for the ballast. Probably you will need a cable extender for the lamp head or you will have to put the ballast together with the lamp)

The price of the ballast usually is higher than the lamphead, and the bulb isn't cheap I don't know but around 100 or 200 GBP. A kit like that you will have to expend more than 7,000 GBP... I think you should think before how much money you want to expend, and get the best match with your expectations.


What about rent? Here in UK there are a lot of rental companies. Anyway You could speak with a company which can help you finding the right lamp, you could go to a shop and have a look to the lights, prices... I work in the service department, so I don't know properly the pricing but I hope you have now a better idea.



Cheers!

 


Edited by Andrés Lasry Moreno, 17 June 2014 - 06:27 AM.

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#9 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 17 June 2014 - 06:36 AM

I wouldn't buy a HMI for a single production, you'd be better renting and putting the cost difference into the film. You can easily rent 2.5k HMIs, which make sense for a low budget production. 


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#10 Peter Daffarn

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 03:40 AM

SALES PITCH WARNING

 

I am the MD of Photon Beard a UK manufacturer of lighting for image capture.

We are about to go into production with our HMI Blonde - 1.2kW

 

We are aiming it at the M18 market but at a budget price.

For £2,995.00 you get a complete system - head, electronic ballast, lamp, barndoors.

All manufactured in the UK - the ballasts are made by Power to Light in Manchester

 

if you need more info please look at www.photonbeard.com and look for the Platinum Blonde on the news page

 

Thanks

 

Peter


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#11 Tom Lawes

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:40 AM

Hi Peter,

 

I've watched the video, look good. When do you think the light will be available?

 

Thanks

Tom


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#12 Peter Daffarn

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:47 AM

Hi Tom,

 
We have now - this week - completed testing and all is ready to go.
I expect the first units will be ready for sale in August.
 
Where are you based - we have the test unit which we can show you sometime.
 
Regards
 
Peter

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#13 freddie bonfanti

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 12:18 PM

Tom

 

Wouldn't it work out cheaper to hire a lighting package for the whole job and a gaffer? I'm sure your DP would appreciate having somebody keeping an eye on the lighting all the way through the job? If you're not on a micro budget then it makes sense to have some sort of continuity.


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#14 Tom Lawes

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 01:16 PM

Hi Freddie, you might think so but because of the relatively long length of the shoot, a gaffer with lights would cost around £30k just for principle photography. Then there will be at least a further week of 2nd unit, with dates TBC, most likely sporadic days making hiring a pain as we have to pay for everything to come up 2.5 hours from London. 

 

Aside from the HMI mentioned, we already own the majority of the lights we need along with an in house crew who know how to use them. However, there will be a couple of days in a 5000 sq ft set where it makes sense to hire a gaffer with a full set of lights.

 

Peter - We are based in Birmingham. I'm taking my RED Dragon to Ianiro in Redditch next week to test their 350w LED lights. If they don't cut it, then I'll be in touch to look at your HMI.


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#15 David Landau

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 09:36 PM

I'm not sure your budget, but Hive has some expectional plasma lights out that use very little wattage and don't produce much heat. We used the two PAR lamp Killer unit on the low budget feature I just finished shooting and it was very bright for low wattage. We used it inside an old bar which had funky electricity, through a 4x4 frame of 250.  Really nice. We used it at night bounced into a white grifflon and it was too bright, so we cut off one lamp and scrimmed the other.

 

Hive just announced the new Bee at NAB - which is a small profile unit with a slightly adjustable color temperature knob.  I highly recommend it over an LED as it has much more punch and a real full spectrum of light - real daylight that no LED comes close to (except the remote phosphor ones).


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#16 Tom Lawes

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 04:52 AM

Thanks David. Those Hive lights look fantastic but I don't think they're available in the UK.

 

Looking forward to reading your book by the way. I pre-ordered recently on Amazon.


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#17 Peter Daffarn

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 05:19 AM

Hi Tom,

 

We have a Plasma light we can show you - for a number of reasons we feel it is commercially un-viable so we never put it into production.

It uses the same source as the Hive units but in a very different housing.

 

Any time you are free just give the factory a call.  It is in Leighton Buzzard so not too far from you.

We can show you a full selection from tungsten, fluorescent, LED, HMI and plasma.

 

Regards

 

Peter


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#18 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:28 AM

Interested to hear why you might not pursue plasma. I haven't done any efficiency or critical colour numbers on it - is that the problem?

 

Also the lack of hot restart is a bit of an issue.

 

P


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#19 Peter Daffarn

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:48 AM

Hi Phil,

 

We were the first to launch plasma into this market beating Hive by just a few months.

Spectrally plasma is outstanding.  As close to natural daylight as you are likely to get in a man made source.

In terms of efficiency we found plasma to be better than HMI but not enough to counter some of the other issues .

 

In our opinion the many advantages of plasma do not out weigh the current disadvantages such as hot re-strike and instability in the beam at certain angles.

There are other factors but I do not want to dwell to much on them as plasma has great potential.

 

We have not given up on plasma - just the format offered by Luxim, is in our opinion, not the best for image capture use.

We are working with another manufacturer of plasma sources to develop a line more suited to our market.

 

Pete


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#20 freddie bonfanti

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:56 AM

As much as i would love to embrace Plasma technology, it seems to me still miles away from being ready for film purposes. Led is more reliable. I recently tested the SGM Q7's, a brand new fixture used mainly for event lighting, and i was shocked how bright it was. unbelievable. I reckon if the price goes down they might just replace par cans for big studio rigs where you need a big, constant and even back light. It doesn't get as hot, it draws less power and it's just as bright. 


Edited by freddie bonfanti, 13 July 2014 - 06:56 AM.

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