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Preference between a lensless Par, or a Par with a lens set?


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#1 Andre Valune

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:24 PM

I know most pars come with the different lens sets to change the width of the beam, but also have been noticing ones coming out lately that have more of an adjustable beam, like K5600's Zoom Beamer and Arri's M18 head.  Do people tend towards one over the other as a matter of personal preference, or are there major convenience or light quality factors that push people in either the direction of the lens set or the direction of the zooming head?


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#2 James Oldham

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

The only difference between a regular PAR fixture, and the new M18 heads is that the newer heads have the flexibility of flooding or spotting like a fresnel fixture would. Because of the new reflector technology the beam remains very sharp and crisp when either flooded or spotted.


Edited by James Oldham, 07 August 2014 - 11:42 AM.

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#3 Albion Hockney

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 02:16 PM

The difference is substanial though as the lenses all have patterns in them and the quality of light must be a little different. I still haven't used one of the new heads and had the same questions.

 

 

Anyone have any problems with the new lenseless pars?


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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 12:49 AM

I'm partial to lensless, less things to move around, less things to break. Also the M18 gets me a lot of punch. But I tend to use what I have to use. Often, most often, this is lenses pars, which I don't mind, but those couple of seconds swapping lenses or moving them along with the head are seconds I'd normally rather spend elsewhere if I could. I think in the future we will see more lens-less pars come out; just as the cost comes down and they get added to more inventories. The M18 is still a pretty premium item on most of the things I do.


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#5 Andre Valune

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:06 PM

Witbout having had a chance to compare the outputs and pros and cons of each type of par, lenses and lensed, is there a way to break the preferences down in to specif9c reasons for choosing one over the other?


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#6 Albion Hockney

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:42 PM

Lenlsess pars are a new technology  designed to replace lensed pars so I dont think its a situation where you would really choose one or the other. Seems like if you have the money get the lensless

 

 

unless of course there are some drawbacks to the lensless which no one has mentioned yet.


Edited by Albion Hockney, 11 August 2014 - 01:42 PM.

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#7 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

They're much more expensive, for the moment. That's a drawback in my eyes.


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#8 Alexander Myszki

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:56 AM

I think lensless pars even at full flood don't have as wide a beam as a lensed par with the widest lens on. It's based on my observation but I've used an M18 only once. The beam however is much 'cleaner' on lensless pars for sure.


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#9 Mark Kenfield

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 07:19 AM

I'm really rather smitten with the M18 at the moment, such a flexible fixture to have, and the beam quality is certainly nicer than a par (can't spot it down quite as much though).

 

But I'll take two please!


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#10 Rob McGreevy

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:20 PM

One huge advantage of lensless Pars is they are huge labor savers - you no longer have to carry around a big heavy lens case that needs to live next to the light at all times. This makes a big difference to a gaffer and his crew when you start talking about throwing up 10 HMIs at once and you don't have 10 cases to drag around with them.

Also, here's something DPs don't always think of but gaffers and best boys definitely do and it's worthy of consideration - it's more space on the truck that you can pack other useful things on. For example the feature I'm working on now - the original order called for a 2.5k system, but by nixing that we were able to instead fit two M-18s in the same space on the cart. Assuming budget isn't a concern you can double your fixture count by ditching the lens cases.

 

You get more light output from these heads as well, something all DPs and Gaffers are concerned with. Not inherently, I've metered an M-40 and an older Arrisun 4k side by side just to see the difference - with no lens there's not much difference, but that's the key word: no lens. When you drop a wide lens in which most gaffers tend towards, you lose several stops - not so with a lensless, there is no glass to absorb light output. Some might say the beam is still not as attractive as a Par with wide lens in it, but so what? How often do you see any Par used directly and not either bounced off an 8x or shot through diffusion? With the lensless system you'll still have more punch after you do that.

 

The only real disadvantage is that they are more in demand and therefore more expensive, but in regards to that Adrian also makes a good point - lenses are expensive and they are the most common part of the system to break., who knows how much L&D has been avoided over the years by taking out M-series lights over older Arrisuns? That stipple lens that so many DPs are so fond of will cost more than the entire monthly rental of the fixture if it goes.


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#11 Albion Hockney

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 11:20 AM

Thanks for that Rob.


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