Jump to content




Photo

Black Pro Mist 1/4 vs 1/8th ...does 1/8th do anything?

alexa/red

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Albion Hockney

Albion Hockney
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 411 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • LA

Posted 19 September 2014 - 11:44 AM

Hi, I have heard a lot of people are putting black pro mist infront of the lens with the digital cameras to get a more organic picture. I have seen some various footage and have been pleased with the results I have seen and was interested in trying it out. The one thing I couldn't really get a handle on was how strong to use it.

 

 

from peoples experience is black pro mist 1/8th enough to do anything?  I just want enough take the edge off so I don't want to over due and have a super bloomy picture that looks like a stocking over the lens or something.

 

 

 

I have heard the effect also intesifies over longer lenses so some people swap it out and use a lesser filter on long lenses? how true is this I couldnt really find examples.... was worried about continuity as for this shoot coming up all be shooting on both wider lenses (28mm or so and then long 135mm +)


  • 0




#2 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 6767 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 19 September 2014 - 12:06 PM

How you filter depends upon taste. Generally you use a lesser intensity filter the wider your shot, so as to preserve fine detail in the image. That said,some (like me) don't vary the intensity of the filter and stick to one for the whole project (unless one really needs to-- such as with older actors who need to look younger).
That said, yes, the 1/8 will be very subtle, and not overly bloomy though I tend towards a 1/4 myself.

You're really not gonna know how you like to filter until you start trying it out. It's nice we're doing digital now as you can see your effects right away, as opposed to needing to develop film. So why not get a DSLR, or something, throw the filter on, and see what you like. Forget other people's footage and examples, and make up your own stance on them.
 


  • 1

#3 Albion Hockney

Albion Hockney
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 411 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • LA

Posted 19 September 2014 - 12:46 PM

yea I think I will go in before this next shoot and take a look at 1/4 and 1/8 on a camera.

 

 

would love to see some examples of real world footage shot with 1/8th on alexa or red ...cant seem to find any


  • 0

#4 Stuart Brereton

Stuart Brereton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2574 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:18 PM

I think you'd be hard put to see the effect of an 1/8 BPM unless you could directly compare with and without, and even then it would be difficult to spot.


  • 0

#5 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 18788 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:35 PM

Most of the Enterprise bridge scenes in "Star Trek" (2009) used a 1/8 Black ProMist. I'm a bit more partial to the Schneider version (Black Frost) but it's only in the stronger levels where you see that the Schneider series tends to be a bit less obvious than the Tiffen version, otherwise the 1/8 and 1/4 are similar in the Tiffen and Schneider series.

You can see the effect of the 1/8 more clearly at night when there are headlamps and street lamps in the frame, in a scene with no points of light, it's pretty hard to spot, which is one reason I use it.
  • 0

#6 Satsuki Murashige

Satsuki Murashige
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3081 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:50 PM

Check out the Tiffen 4K filter test shot by our own Stephen Murphy: http://www.tiffen.co...gistration.html.

He tests Tiffen BPMs as well as Softnets, and the newer Pearlescent and Black Satin filters. The other popular diffusion brands are Schneider Classic Soft/HD, Hollywood Black Magic, Black/White Frost, and Digital Diffusion FX. And then there options like using older lenses, uncoated lenses, and nets (pantyhose) over the lens.
  • 0

#7 Albion Hockney

Albion Hockney
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 411 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • LA

Posted 19 September 2014 - 03:41 PM

awesome satsuki that is great!


  • 0

#8 Bradley Stearn

Bradley Stearn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera
  • London

Posted 09 May 2015 - 03:52 PM

I've been discussing filters over on another thread, and decided to make the move and purchase a Tiffen Black pro mist 1/8 to start my 4x4 filter collection off. I sometimes dislike the sharp look of shooting on digital (not that I have shot on film to compare), but I feel that using a low grade black pro mist works wonders, and it isn't too noticeable with the lower grades. 

 

Today on a shoot we had CP.2 primes, and used a Tiffen black pro mist 1/4 for the whole day, on wide shots and close-up shots. It wasn't overly noticeable as a filter, but you could definitely see the difference when compared to with/without the filter. I suppose as mentioned before, if you want to go for an obvious dream/flashback sequence, then a higher grade such as a 1/1 or 1 black pro mist would really help to sell the effect, practically in camera, which is always a bonus.

 

A DOP I was assisting last week said something along the lines of 'just going for it' when doing in camera effects. We shot a whole short film on the Red Epic Monochrome camera, which obviously meant the only way forward was to shoot black and white, with no going back. The Red Epic Monochrome had a beautiful image, one of my favourite images that I've seen from a digital camera, and probably a lot better than changing a normal digital colour file into black and white in post. I guess my point here is the same with filters, you will probably get a better effect using lens filtration, than adding lets say a pro mist effect in during post production. 


  • 0

#9 Mark Kenfield

Mark Kenfield
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 712 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 09 May 2015 - 06:49 PM

Hey Albion, a 1/8 BPM certainly has an effect, but it's as subtle as it gets. I tend to prefer 1/4 for most shots, switching to 1/8 on some longer lens shots (generally 85mm and upwards).

For examples, you can check out my reel on my website (link in my signature), almost every shot has a 1/4 or 1/8 BPM on (the period piece is 1/2 BPM), cameras are a mix of Alexa and Sony Cinealtas.
  • 1

#10 Albion Hockney

Albion Hockney
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 411 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • LA

Posted 16 May 2015 - 12:49 PM

Since I have made this post I have been using 1/8th on pretty much everything and I did 1/4 on a more stylistic short film and on one music video and its been great.

 

one thing I have found is that in high key situations it seems less useful as it does get kinda bloomy or just with a lot of bright objects in the background... I did one shot with a string of light bulbs in the background and even with 1/8th they started to look a little too bloomy. In low key situations 1/4 is really fantastic though, really helps give the picture some texture.

 

Nice reel mark!


  • 0


rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks

Zylight

Tai Audio

Abel Cine

Pro 8mm

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

The Slider

Technodolly

Glidecam

Pro 8mm

Technodolly

CineLab

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

CineTape

Zylight

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport