Jump to content




Photo

First time Bolex user looking for a little help..


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Luuk van den Berg

Luuk van den Berg

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student
  • Groningen, the Netherlands

Posted 23 September 2014 - 07:25 AM

Hi everyone. I recently came across a Bolex Paillard H16 Reflex and I'd like to shoot a short film with it in the near future. I've allready watched some videos about how to use the camera, but there are some things I can't figure out. I don't have any experience with film cameras, but I have been shooting still film a lot (35mm, 120 & 4x5") so I do have some knowledge about film. Since i'm a student and film and processing isn't what you call cheap I'd like to go in fully prepared to minimize the chance of error. If anyone could help me anwser these questions it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

The set:

Bolex Paillard H16 Reflex

Yvar 75mm 2.8

Switar 25mm 1.4 H16 RX

Switar 16mm 1.8 H16 RX

Berthiot Pan-Cinor 17.5-70mm 2.4 + viewing scope (not sure what the correct name for that is)

16-25mm viewfinder for the Switar lenses

 

I'll just fire away I guess;

 

About the Switar lenses

FI8R7PO.jpg7TX2pfA.jpg

1. I'd guess these are used in combination with the 16-25mm viewfinder that goes on the side of the Bolex. My question about this is, is the only way to focus these lenses through zonefocussing?

2. Since I have the 17.5-70mm should I even use these lenses?

 

About the Berthiot Pan-Cinor 17.5-70mm

qXuw5zB.jpg

3. However I try to get the lens on the camera, I cannot seem to get it alligned correctly (see image below) for the viewing scope. Does anyone have an idea why this is, or how I could fix this? I'd prefer to use this lens instead of the 3 primes. Any way I try the lens locks up at the point on the image below.

QFg6qXn.jpg

4. The focusring on the front needs quite a lot of power to turn, is there a safe and easy way to lubricate/ease this motion? And with the viewing scope on, is it optical focussing or do I need to zonefocus this lens?

 

5. Last question about this lens, when I open up the lens at the mounting threads there is a black spot inside (see image below), could anyone tell me what this is?

goGg3MP.jpg7jEPlF8.jpg

 

6. Last question, I've got a Gossen Lunasix 3 lightmeter which I use for my photography. Can I use this for metering with the bolex also? There are some "CINE" values on the meter but Im not completely sure what they do. And how would I choose a shutterspeed when filming at 24fps?

 

Well that was "just" it. Let me know if you need more photographs of specifics pieces of the lens to be able to find out whats wrong with the lens. Im really enthusiastic to start shooting with this Bolex so I hope you guys may have some anwsers for me. Any anwsers / tips in general are greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

Luuk

 


  • 0




#2 Dom Jaeger

Dom Jaeger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1201 posts
  • Other
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 23 September 2014 - 09:23 AM

Hi Luuk,
First thing you should do is download a manual, plenty of options, this site is good:
http://www.apecity.com/manuals/

If you can get hold of some old film on a daylight spool to practice loading that would be worthwhile.

The camera is reflex so you can look through the taking lens (middle port) to focus using the viewfinder mounted on the top right.

The side-finder that fits to the door is called an Octameter and should have 8 settings. Because the reflex viewfinder only gets a quarter of the light via a prism it can be dark if the lens is stopped down, so the side-finder can come in handy for framing in those situations.

The zoom is from the mid 50s when zoom technology was primitive, it's not as good as the Switar primes. If you want to use it you don't need the viewing finder fitted, the camera is already reflex. But the zoom mount thread should be rotatable to align the lens if you wish. The black dot inside is part of the lens reflex viewing system.

At 24 fps the shutter speed on a reflex H16 is 1/60 sec, but because the reflex prism diverts a quarter of the light to the viewfinder you need to overexpose a bit, so the "adjusted" shutter speed you should work with is 1/80 sec. The manual will have this information.

Good luck!
  • 0

#3 Luuk van den Berg

Luuk van den Berg

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student
  • Groningen, the Netherlands

Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:05 AM

Hi Dom,

 

Thanks a lot! It all makes sense now. I'll probably leave the zoom alone and use the primes instead. Any tips for loosening the focusrings on those?


  • 0

#4 Luuk van den Berg

Luuk van den Berg

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student
  • Groningen, the Netherlands

Posted 23 September 2014 - 10:26 AM

Oh and a follow-up question, I've been looking at splicers. Now I've seen the ones with a roll of tape, they look easy to use and real nice but they're way more expensive then the ones with glue. They're kinda too expensive for me at this time. Whats the real difference between working with tape or with glue? Im going to shoot with Kodak 7266 Tri-X.


  • 0

#5 Josh Gladstone

Josh Gladstone
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 309 posts
  • Editor
  • Hollywood

Posted 23 September 2014 - 11:50 AM

Tape is easy to take apart and you don't lose any frames. With cement, you have to scratch the emulsion off a bit on each side of the cut, so there's no real undoing it without losing a frame or two. Not that tape is much fun to undo, but at least you don't lose anything. Cement is stronger, though.

 

Roll tape guillotine splicers are great if you're making a lot of cuts. The tape is cheap and easy to come by, and it's really easy and relatively fast to use. They're solidly made, mostly one piece of cast metal, as they were designed for professional editors who would be using them a lot. But if you just want to cut some on the cheap, look at presstape splicers. Presstape is pre-perforated pieces of tape that you apply kind of like a band-aid. They were meant for home-use, so they're super inexpensive. They're just not as robust. And presstape can be frustrating to use.

 

Anyway, they're cheap. You won't pay more than $20 for a presstape splicer. Here's one on ebay for $0.99. Here's one with box and instructions for $8 buy it now. 


Edited by Josh Gladstone, 23 September 2014 - 11:51 AM.

  • 0

#6 Dom Jaeger

Dom Jaeger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1201 posts
  • Other
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 24 September 2014 - 02:04 AM

Hi Dom,
 
Thanks a lot! It all makes sense now. I'll probably leave the zoom alone and use the primes instead. Any tips for loosening the focusrings on those?


The only way to free them up really is to have the rear part with focus helical dismantled, cleaned and relubricated, something a lens technician familiar with Kern lenses could do in about an hour per lens. It's not something I 'd recommend you try yourself.

Gently warming them up can temporarily loosen them by softening the hardened grease that is causing the stiff focus, but they tend to go stiff again on cooling.

Don't try spraying WD 40 or Silicone into a lens, you will just ruin it.
  • 0

#7 Luuk van den Berg

Luuk van den Berg

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student
  • Groningen, the Netherlands

Posted 24 September 2014 - 09:28 AM

@Josh

Thanks for the tip! I'll be ordering one of those. 

 

@Dom

Thanks again, i'll just try loosening them up a bit by hand. The 25mm - which I will use mostly I think - is smooth so its not a big problem. Thanks for your help.


  • 0

#8 Simon Wyss

Simon Wyss
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1143 posts
  • Other
  • Basel, Switzerland

Posted 24 September 2014 - 01:22 PM

Luuk, by the way, what is your full name, here’s what I’d do with your equipment.

 

The Paillard-Bolex H 16 turret model is not made for heavy lenses. Since you have a reflex camera you don’t need the Pan-Cinor with viewfinder incorporated. I’d stick to compact and lightweight prime lenses. The Switar 25 and 16 you have are good products.

 

A wider angle could be useful, say f = 10 mm. I very much like the Berthiot Cinor 10-1.9 of which RX versions were made. In the longer focal lengths 100 mm is very useful.

 

You may want to have your camera serviced. To me it appears to have been made between 1956 and 1963, so the lady is at least 51 years old. Grease wants to be removed, fresh lubricants applied, oil brought in here and there.

 

Liefde, niet vergeten!


  • 0

#9 Luuk van den Berg

Luuk van den Berg

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student
  • Groningen, the Netherlands

Posted 25 September 2014 - 07:27 AM

@ Simon

 

Thanks for your reply. My name is Luuk van den Berg, any particular reason why? Servicing the camera might come later, I do not have the fund for it now, and after testing the basics of the camera it seems to run smooth enough to shoot some film so in this case I am just going to try. More lenses may be something for the future, depends on how much I will like shooting film like this. 

 

And yes, i'll be treating it with love haha, how come you speak Dutch?

 

 

---

 

 

Yet another question, I hope you guys aren't getting bored by it. I've bought a Kodak Presstape splicer and now I am looking for what else I need. Ofcourse I'll need the Presstapes but what else to make the film run on a projector? I see things such as filmleader in the webshop, but not sure if its needed and how it would be needed. So what materials do I need to get my edited film to run on a projector?


  • 0

#10 Josh Gladstone

Josh Gladstone
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 309 posts
  • Editor
  • Hollywood

Posted 25 September 2014 - 01:13 PM

Leader is a good idea if you want to see the first frame when you project. That is, you need to thread a length of film through the projector and onto the takeup spool. If you don't do this with leader, when you start the projector, you'll be a few seconds into your film. Leader also protects the edited film. So it's a good idea, but it isn't absolutely necessary in order to get images projected. All you'll absolutely need to edit and run your film is your splicer and tape, your film, a projector, electricity, and something to project onto.


  • 0

#11 Josh Gladstone

Josh Gladstone
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 309 posts
  • Editor
  • Hollywood

Posted 25 September 2014 - 01:21 PM

You probably will want to get some empty 50' reels. Maybe 200' too, depending on how long you intend to make your pieces. Also, some white paper tape and a pen is helpful for marking clips and reels and things (masking tape would probably be fine too). Not totally necessary for getting images projected, but you'll want this stuff. And it's cheap.


  • 0

#12 Luuk van den Berg

Luuk van den Berg

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Student
  • Groningen, the Netherlands

Posted 25 September 2014 - 02:05 PM

Thank you Josh, again all my questions anwsered. I've got my eyes set on a Bauer P7 Universal for about 60$, is that any good?


  • 0

#13 Josh Gladstone

Josh Gladstone
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 309 posts
  • Editor
  • Hollywood

Posted 25 September 2014 - 04:20 PM

I've never used one personally, but Bauer made excellent products. So I'd imagine it's quite good.


  • 0

#14 Simon Wyss

Simon Wyss
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1143 posts
  • Other
  • Basel, Switzerland

Posted 26 September 2014 - 01:45 AM

My name is Luuk van den Berg, any particular reason why?

 

[attachment=8829:Forum Guidelines.jpg]


  • 0


Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

CineLab

Zylight

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Tai Audio

CineTape

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Pro 8mm

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Glidecam

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

CineLab

Visual Products

Willys Widgets

The Slider

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Paralinx LLC

Tai Audio

Zylight

Pro 8mm

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

CineTape