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ECN2 Replenisher used as Fresh Solution?


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#1 Peter Humble

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 09:21 AM

Hi,

I received some Kodak ECN2 Replenisher solution (Part A & Part B) from a lab that shut down and I'm just getting around to trying it out now.

I was wondering if this replenisher can be mixed as the primary fresh solution for development (and if so do would the A:B ratio be different) or do I need a different ECN2 mix for the fresh developing solution?

Thanks.
Peter
 


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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 10:08 AM

I'm not familiar with ECN but the idea behind replenisher is that it replaces chemicals exhausted during development and prolongs the life of the developer. It doesn't have the full range of chemicals in the correct proportions. So I'd say no, you can't use it to replace primary developer.


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#3 John Salim

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 01:00 PM

Developer replenisher solutions need to be 'started' ( using a starter solution ) to prepare a tank solution suitable for proper film processing.

Starter 'conditions' the developer for correct activity by introducing chemicals into the solutions ( normally released from film ).

 

Using an unstarted developer will result in over-activity.

 

John S :rolleyes:


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#4 Peter Humble

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

Many thanks for the reply.

Peter


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#5 Simon Wyss

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 12:54 AM

The point about most developers is that the light-struck film releases bromine. That takes place already in the camera. Perhaps some have noticed its smell upon opening the camera lid.

 

In the developing bath a bromide compound is employed to suppress a general fog. But during use the films give off silver bromide that is dissolved out the emulsion. Silver and bromine are the main components for light sensitivity but also two unpleasing fellows in the bath and on the equipment, whether we process by machine or by hand. Starting means setting the bromide level to a certain amount. Too much bromide is also not fine, one reason for the recycling of baths. The ECN-ECP system is complicated.

 

Admittedly not as complicated as Kodachrome processes were

 

 

My first contact with Eastmancolor processing was in 1988. I began on a Photomec doing positives. I’ll never forget the times when I had to clean the developer tank with a hot salt acid solution under pressure, a 800-liter stainless steel vessel.


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#6 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 02:20 AM

As noted by Simon, the replenisher solution has more CD3, less bromide than the machine tank. Without looking at the other components, processing in replenisher would result in higher activity because of too high CD3 and pH, and too high fog level because of too low bromide level. Probably a lot more grain and saturation too. 


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#7 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:52 AM

Hi peter
Richard here
What you have by the sounds of it is kodak ecn developer kit chemisprocessingand part B . Really this is all you need. The products you have are of course intended for machine processing rather than very small lomo tank processing which is what you are doing. replenisher per say is a higher and different concentration of developer ingredients than working strength developer. But the same kit components are used to mix up ecn dev replenisher as are used to mix working strength or 'fresh tank' developer, with the exception that fresh tank developer also uses another kit component called 'starter'. This starter is as simon mentioned basically bromide. It is added to fresh tank developer to effectively turn it on to developer that is 'seasoned'; basically like developer that has already been used. This is necessary with machine processing because otherwise the first rolls you put through the machine will be getting more development than the subsequent rolls. You see each time you put film into a developer bromides etc are released from the film. Bromide is a retainer again as simon pointed out, so used dev is less active than unused dev. Now during processing in a machine, replenisher is continuously being slowly added to the tank, displacing some of the existing tank solution. This continuously reinvigorates the strength of the developer but there will always be bromides etc in there released from the development film. The kit components are referred to as replenisher components because with machine processing you only occasionally replace all the chemistry in the tank and start again. By far most of the developer you mix up is at replenisher strength rather than working solution or starter strength. But, with the addition of the ingredient called starter, the same ingredients are used for replenisher and working strength fresh tank developer. So, upshot is, you could buy yourself a bottle of the ecn dev starter... But you can't buy that readily in Australia. And blessed kodak will also never tell you exactly what is in that bottle. But, and this is the most important bit, for diy developing in a lomo tank you don't need to fuss replenishment of your tiny 1.6 litre quantity of dev - simply use different dev times from use to use as you do with all other developers when processing by hand in a small tank. For practical purposes this is absolutely fine. You aren't in need of the level of process consistency aimed at in a commercial facility. And anyway there is no reason you couldn't get that with tank processing of you worked out your times accurately enough anyway.
So here is what to do. Go to the Kodak kit chemistry instructions which are with the h24 processing manuals etc on their website. Find the mixing ratio for ecn part a and part B for fresh tank solution rather than replenisher solution. The specified ratio will also specify an about of starter per litre. Simply omit this. Now, depending on how rough and ready you want to be (and I suggest this is exactly what you want fined you are doing it just for yourself and you will base your future camera exposures and dev times on these very results) develop away for three minutes and enjoy the results. Next roll try developing in the same now used developer for say 3.5 minutes. Compare the results and adjust times in the future accordingly. get the idea? This will be absolutely fine.
Enjoy!
Rt
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#8 Peter Humble

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 10:47 PM

Hi Richard,

 

Thanks a lot for the detailed response. Hope your tour is going well. I'm keen to come to Melbourne next time you do one of your printing or chromaflex workshops so keep me posted!

 

Best,

Peter


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