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Total Newbie Super 8 Run Down/Walk Through Please


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#1 J. Cash

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:57 AM

I've watched many videos and looked over but just getting into Super 8 and a walk through of process by someone who does it would be great.

 

1.  Just want to hobby shoot Super 8 and looking at a Bell & Howell Filmosonic XL 1235 and a Canon 814, which would be better? 

 

2.  Can the ebay deadstock film work and what kind would be good?  Prefer color.

 

3.  Anywhere in Orlando area that I can then take Super 8 to be developed, or where do you send yours to get sent back in a digital form.

 

Thank you very much.


Edited by J. Cash, 21 October 2014 - 05:58 AM.

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#2 David Cunningham

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 12:47 PM

Welcome to the party Cash!

 

1.) The Canon 814 is a FAR superior camera to the B&H.  The Canon 814 AutoZoom and/or XL-S have some of the best optics of any Super 8 camera.  (Only the rare cameras with interchangeable lenses are better).  And, they will both meter up to at least 250ASA.  The B&H will only meter up to 160.  If you are using 500T indoors the one-stop over exposure by metering at 250 will actually help you early on until you get more comfortable with using external/manual light meters, etc.

 

2.) It can work, but you will probably have better luck just buying new/fresh stock.  So long as you want to work with digital files and have no interest in projection you can shoot Super 8 negative color film which is much easier to get right than either color or B&W reversal (projection) films.  Pro8mm has some excellent processing and stock options.  (All their socks include pressing.  See www.pro8mm.com).  I would at least start with fresh stock from them or Spectra Film and Video until you get comfortable working with film and have fully tested your camera.  If you get "deadstock" from eBay and you have bad results you'll never be sure if it was the film or camera.

 

3.) These days it's best/fastest/easiest/safest to send your film for processing and scanning at the same place.  Again, just starting out, I'd advise using Pro8mm or Spectra.  They are both dependable for film, processing AND scanning.  If you want a really good 2K or HD scan of your super 8 negative, I would advise Gamma Ray Digital in Arlington, MA (near Boston).  They use the LaserGraphics ScanStation and their results are second-to-none.  But, they are flat scan only so you would have to do/be comfortable with grading yourself.  Both Pro8mm and Spectra also have excellent scanning services with the option for fully-graded files.  Again, it might be the safest best to start out.  Pro8mm even has all-in-one film packs that include film, processing, HD scanning and a mailer to ship the film back to them.  That's about as easy as it gets.

 

Good luck!  Please post results!  Welcome to the community!


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#3 J. Cash

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:08 PM

Thanks for the detailed reply. Will definitely push for the Canon. I guess will contact pro8mm about getting some film then and their whole process package from film to end haha
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#4 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:16 PM

You can order film straight from Kodak over the phone, 1-800-621-3456. 

http://motion.kodak....ducts/index.htm

 

For processing, you can use Cinelab on the East coast. I send mine to LA from Portland, so that may work out for you. LA also has Spectra film for all kind of Super 8 services.

http://cinelab.com/8mm.html

 

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/


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#5 David Cunningham

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 08:43 PM

My preferred workflow is:

 

1.) Order direct from Kodak

2.) Process at cinelab in MA - www.cinelab.com

3.) Scan at Gamma Ray Digital in MA - www.gammaraydigital.com

4.) Grade and edit in Premiere Pro CC 2014

5.) Export to Prores 422HQ for upload to vimeo

 

Cash, if you'd like to try this workflow, I have a cart of Kodak 7219 Vision3 500T available.  I'd ship it to you for $25 including USPS Priority Mail shipping.  It's a fresh cart from my film fridge left over from my most recent (and last of the season) wedding shoot from a few weeks ago.

 

You can then ship it to Cinelab for processing for $18 plus shipping.  If you ask them to and include the shipping address they will ship it directly to Gamma Ray Digital for you.  I cannot be sure of the pricing from Perry at Gamma Ray Digital as I get a bit of a bulk rate discount.  You'd have to contact him directly via www.gammaraydigital.com.  You will have to ship him a thumb drive.  He will ship you back that thumb drive with your digital file on it and the original negative.

 

Then you will need to use Premiere or some other editor with a RGB curve grading system to grade the footage.

 

This is the result of that same workflow, although mostly the fair superior Vision3 50D 7203 in beautiful outdoor light:

 

 

This was a Canon 1014 XL-S, but the 814 AZ and/or XL-S is actually superior in sharpness to the 1014, especially wide open.

 

Dave


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#6 J. Cash

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 11:01 PM

My preferred workflow is:

 

1.) Order direct from Kodak

2.) Process at cinelab in MA - www.cinelab.com

3.) Scan at Gamma Ray Digital in MA - www.gammaraydigital.com

4.) Grade and edit in Premiere Pro CC 2014

5.) Export to Prores 422HQ for upload to vimeo

 

Cash, if you'd like to try this workflow, I have a cart of Kodak 7219 Vision3 500T available.  I'd ship it to you for $25 including USPS Priority Mail shipping.  It's a fresh cart from my film fridge left over from my most recent (and last of the season) wedding shoot from a few weeks ago.

 

You can then ship it to Cinelab for processing for $18 plus shipping.  If you ask them to and include the shipping address they will ship it directly to Gamma Ray Digital for you.  I cannot be sure of the pricing from Perry at Gamma Ray Digital as I get a bit of a bulk rate discount.  You'd have to contact him directly via www.gammaraydigital.com.  You will have to ship him a thumb drive.  He will ship you back that thumb drive with your digital file on it and the original negative.

 

Then you will need to use Premiere or some other editor with a RGB curve grading system to grade the footage.

 

This is the result of that same workflow, although mostly the fair superior Vision3 50D 7203 in beautiful outdoor light:

 

 

This was a Canon 1014 XL-S, but the 814 AZ and/or XL-S is actually superior in sharpness to the 1014, especially wide open.

 

Dave

definitely some high quality work, almost too nice, but i'm sure my lack of experience will make up for that haha.  and so what you have, being color negative, will be good for just going straight to digital correct?  does color negative NOT end up working with a projector at all then?  and how long does ONE cartridge record for? 

does it have to go this gamma ray place?  i'm not worried about having such high quality like yours.  that cinelab place can't just process and then convert to digital and get back to me in some form?  thanks for your time and let me know paypal info for film as seems like that's good price compared to ebay.


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#7 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:27 AM

Cine lab can scan it too. Gamma ray may be cheaper and better? You can not project negative, but you can get TriX b&w reversal and project that. It s a good way to start and tri x looks pretty cool.
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#8 David Cunningham

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:52 AM

Anthony is right the only trick with tri x is its lack of Lattitude. If you get the exposure wrong it has a MAJOR effect on the result with tri-x.

Cinelab has a good transfer system too, especially for standard def. they are working on an HD/2K system for super 8 that is or will likely be comparable to the ScanStation at gamma ray.

Depending on your frame rate setting, one cart will last about 2 minutes and 30 seconds (24 FPS - cine standard) or 3 minutes 20 seconds (18 fps - old super 8 standard).

I'll send a pm with PayPal info. I'm just selling it to you at my bulk rate cost as I always want to support new users. The more the better. Shoot it or loose it we super 8 enthusiasts say.

Just keep in mind that 500T is very grainy in super 8. The clip I attached above, the latter, darker, grainier scenes are 500T with bright led video light. That's more like what you'll get.

Dave
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