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360 degree pan in precisely 48 seconds. How?


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#1 Eric Novakovich

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:53 PM

I am trying to figure out a way to execute a shot that requires completing a 360 degree revolution in 48 seconds, EXACTLY. Why exactly? Well, because I have a 48 second pre-recorded cue and the move is choreographed to fit the cue. 

 

I am on a tight budget and schedule (aren't we all) and don't have the luxury of spending several hours trying to complete this movement manually. How can one accomplish this with precision in a time-efficient manner? 

 

I was thinking that perhaps one of those time-lapse heads would work if I could input the time (i.e. 48 seconds) and degrees (360°). 

 

I am using a Black Magic 4K. 

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

 


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#2 John Barlow

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 05:25 PM

Do you have movement in the shot?

 

If no then a 360 panorama could be stitched together and then you are free to pass through it at your speed of choice, 

 

just a thought :)


Edited by John Barlow, 25 October 2014 - 05:26 PM.

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#3 Eric Novakovich

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:55 PM

Do you have movement in the shot?
 
If no then a 360 panorama could be stitched together and then you are free to pass through it at your speed of choice, 
 
just a thought :)


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#4 Eric Novakovich

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:56 PM

Yes the shot contains actors that need to be "alive" I.e. blinking, slight movements of the head.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:45 PM

Seems like if you get close enough, you could do a minor speed change in post to get the shot to run exactly 48 seconds long.


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#6 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:22 AM

The way to do it with the utmost precision would be on a motion control crane, but that's a very expensive option. Personally I'd probably just time it out with a stopwatch and make some marks somewhere that I could refer to.

 

P


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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:03 AM

You could trying using a gear head, timing the wheel turns to a beat or click track.


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#8 Chris Millar

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:30 AM

If the motion is choreographed with talent then speeding it up and slowing down in post wont work... (well, that's the safer assumption at least)

 

Howabout just a head with a motor input ? No need for a full crane (!)

 

Lots of bodges like steppers/arduino/lazy susan set ups to be hacked together if that's your style/budget ...

 

Once you have it going the next question is how to coordinate all the elements to be in sync with each other - in other words, when/what position do you start the rotation...


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#9 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 10:39 AM

Is this a sound shot or an MOS shot?


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#10 Eric Novakovich

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:33 AM

MOS
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#11 Eric Novakovich

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 11:35 AM

I noticed that no one has addressed the time lapse head. Is this because it will not work?
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#12 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 01:31 PM

If it'll go fast enough, I guess. Some people have modified telescope mounts to do similar things, but I'm fairly sure they wouldn't go all the way around in the time you need.

 

You could always bodge something up with a motor and gearbox.

 

P


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#13 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 01:46 PM

I am trying to figure out a way to execute a shot that requires completing a 360 degree revolution in 48 seconds, EXACTLY.

 

 

Do the start and end frames have to precisely match?

Is the camera paning or static at the start and end of shot?

Is the cut/transition into and out of the shot hard or soft?

 

Just some questions that came to mind that might affect how easy this is to do.


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#14 Eric Novakovich

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 01:53 PM

Thanks Greg - here are the answers to your questions...

 

Do the start and end frames have to precisely match? Only in the sense that the frame must return to the woman's face. See below...

Is the camera paning or static at the start and end of shot? INT. LIVING ROOM - NIGHT - FADE UP onto a WOMAN's FACE (STATIC SHOT). Now, CAMERA PANS around FOUR OTHER FACES and return onto original WOMAN's FACE. The woman begins to pray. CUT TO: INT. ENTRY - CONTINUOUS.

Is the cut/transition into and out of the shot hard or soft? See above.

 

Just some questions that came to mind that might affect how easy this is to do.


Edited by Eric Novakovich, 26 October 2014 - 01:54 PM.

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#15 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 02:22 PM

I would think that an operator within a few takes could get to the end of a 360 degree pan at exactly 48 seconds if someone did a countdown for him.
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#16 Chris Millar

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:38 PM

I noticed that no one has addressed the time lapse head. Is this because it will not work?

 

Gregg has asked the direct questions that I alluded to above also - they'll need some consideration.

 

David, I agree that an operator could achieve a total of 48 seconds for the total move (esp, with a countdown as you mention), but what an operator will struggle with relative to that task is maintaining a constant rotational velocity throughout the move - something we're not 100% sure is a design spec at this stage - Eric?

 

360/48 = 7.5 deg/s

 

As Phil points out a timelapse head may not have that capability directly but maybe you can gear it, or change the timing divisor in code (electronic gearing). Who knows, suspect it's trivial but really up to the initiative of the person you end up renting it from. 

 

A web search of 'motion control pan head' reveals many off the shelf solutions also.

 

What is your budget?  ...and the same question but from another perspective: are you tinkering or is this a paid job?


Edited by Chris Millar, 26 October 2014 - 05:38 PM.

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#17 Chris Millar

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 05:45 PM

... by 'constant' I mean not just an average of 7.5 deg/s - but 7.5 deg/s for the whole move ...


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#18 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 06:17 PM

I would think that an operator within a few takes could get to the end of a 360 degree pan at exactly 48 seconds if someone did a countdown for him.

 

Exactly my thinking, which is why I asked if it was MOS. 

 

I do run-throughs with basic set-ups, so why wouldn't you do it with this - somewhat more complex - set-up?  Automation is not always the sure-fire way to go.  All you really need is a good camera operator & a few takes and you should be good.


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#19 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:06 PM

You could certainly do it with a motion control system, perhaps tied to something simple like Hot Gears on a geared head, the operator would do it a few times until it was 48 seconds long and then be able to repeat the move. But I don't see why the simplest solution isn't the best, just let the operator do it to a countdown (if you are recording dialogue then do it thru a headset). Using a geared head would make it feel more precise and robotic.
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#20 Chris Millar

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 08:35 PM

... but what an operator will struggle with relative to that task is maintaining a constant rotational velocity throughout the move - something we're not 100% sure is a design spec at this stage - Eric?

 

... by 'constant' I mean not just an average of 7.5 deg/s - but 7.5 deg/s for the whole move ...


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