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Logmar Super 8 camera frame specs


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#1 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 03:53 PM

Tommy Madsen of Logmar camera has sent me the exact Super 8 frame dimensions for the Logmar camera. I wish to compliment this camera with appropriate anamorphic systems to output both classic Cinemascope 2.40:1 and 16:9 (1.78:1) aspect ratios. The Super 8 frame spec is from http://www.gcmstudio.com/filmspecs/filmspecs.html 
 
Super-8 frame dimensions
1. Camera aperture size (H x W): 4.22 x 5.63mm
2. Frame area: 23.76sq. mm 
3. Aspect ratio: 1.33:1
 
Logmar Super-8 frame dimensions:
1. Camera aperture size (H x W): 4.20 x 6.30mm
2. Frame area: 26.46sq. mm
3. Aspect ratio: 1.5:1
 
The Logmar camera gate represents approximately an 11 % increase in imaging area over the standard Super 8 1.33:1 frame. It's slightly more rectangular 1.5:1 frame approaches the classic aspect ratio of 16:9 (1.78:1). I have applied various anamorphic compression ratios as listed on this great Super 8 anamorphic adapter/lens page which provides a comprehensive listing of commonly available adapter/optics, i.e. http://super8wiki.co...amorphic_Lenses. This 1.5:1 frame spec will result in the following non-standard anamorphic widescreen aspect ratios, i.e. 
 
1. Logmar 1.5:1 x 1.33x compression = 2.00:1
2. Logmar 1.5:1 x 1.42x compression = 2.13:1
3. Logmar 1.5:1 x 1.5x compression = 2.25:1
4. Logmar 1.5:1 x 1.75x compression = 2.63:1
5. Logmar 1.5:1 x 1.77x compression = 2.66:1
6. Logmar 1.5:1 x 1.9x compression = 2.85:1
7. Logmar 1.5:1 x 2.0x compression = 3.00:1
 
What is interesting to me is that the classic 1.75x and 2.0x compression ratios may intercut with my two larger UltraPan8 formats. i.e.
 
1. UltraPan8 2.8 R8: frame dimensions = 3.75 x 10.54mm (frame area = 39.53sq. mm) w/ aspect ratio = 2.8:1
2. UltraPan8 3.1 DS8: frame dimensions = 4.22 x 13.00mm (frame area = 54.86sq.mm) w/ aspect ratio = 3.1:1
 
I am looking forward to exploring the impact of the Logmar's Latham loop, digital motors and pin registered gate relative to the Bolex's pressure pad.

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#2 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 01:05 PM

I'm still lusting for this camera but common sense is telling me this project is going to be too cost prohibitive. If they really plan on selling it for 5K after the Beta and one roll of film costing $26 without processing after the 1st,  this thing could blow up on the launch pad. Just a few years ago i was shooting 200ft of DS8 for the price of 1 16mm 100ft spool ($35 for 200ft stock $20 processing). I personally don't like digital but how is anyone going to justify this when the new Canon 7D is $1500 with a huge marketing campaign that shows off all the great footage people are getting from it. Kodak needs to get out of the film business and hand it over to someone that can supply the demand with realistic costs. Ideally if there were a steady supply of the stocks we have now in 200ft spools at a cost of $40-$50 and the camera price stays the same, then we have something to work with. Otherwise i don't see being able to sell anyone on S8 in any kind of professional capacity at these prices. 


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#3 Omar Alboukharey

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 10:28 PM

Where did they say they were selling the camera for 5K???

 

And also, why do they have to change the dimensions? I would've just liked it as the standard 1.33:1 aspect ratio and not a Super8 VistaVision :(


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#4 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 04:59 AM

Where did they say they were selling the camera for 5K???

 

And also, why do they have to change the dimensions? I would've just liked it as the standard 1.33:1 aspect ratio and not a Super8 VistaVision :(

You are not buying and still want it built you your wishes???

 

When they make the frame as big as possible they satify the desire of many purchasers and you can still use it in 3:4 ratio in any projector or in teleciné. The reverse is not true so it is only smart.


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#5 Omar Alboukharey

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 09:38 PM

Well couldn't they have adjust the Camera's aperture size height so that it becomes a ratio of 1.78:1 (16:9)??? 

 

That would make things alot more convenient and easier honestly speaking. Makes sense to do so as well in this day and age.


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#6 Carl Looper

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:59 AM

The whole point of extending the width of the frame is to provide more film area for ratios like 16:9.

 

The camera exposes 6.3 x 4.2mm. If you want a 16:9 result then you just crop that to 6.3mm x 3.54mm (of the exposed film) in your finished work. Its as simple as that.

 

The frame ratio of the screened image depends on what you do with the film you shoot. The camera itself exposes as much as of the available film as it can within the available real estate - to support as many ratios as possible. The maximum height is about 4.22 mm (a or a tad more). It can't be made any higher than that without overlapping the next frame. The maximum width was originally about 5.6mm, where a certain amount of film was originally reserved for a soundtrack. Soundtracks are no longer recorded on the Super8 film and so that reserved area is being wasted. Modern Super8 such as the Logmar reclaims that wasted area by extended the amount of film exposable per sprocket out to a width of 6.3mm - they can't extend it much further out than that because there will be no more film left in to which an exposure can be made.

 

C


Edited by Carl Looper, 17 January 2015 - 02:00 AM.

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#7 Carl Looper

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 09:10 AM

Hopefully the following makes it clearer.

 

Depicted is a couple of candidate apertures for a Super8 camera aperture.

 

1. Original 4:3 camera aperture.

2. Recentred 4:3 aperture

3. 16:9 aperture

4: Logmar aperture

 

The last one, the Logmar aperture, allows one to choose any of the others for a finished crop, as it exposes the maximum possible area of the Super8 film (leaving a thin margin for any pressure plate requiring it). Apart from screening film on an original Super8 projector (with it's hardwired 4:3 crop) these days a crop is done either during a scan of the film to digital, or in a digital edit. If one hardwired any of the smaller apertures into the camera it would rule out having any choice on what crop you wanted to use.

 

Super8Framing.png


Edited by Carl Looper, 17 January 2015 - 09:13 AM.

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