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[NYC]: Talented DP Needed -- FEMALE DP's PREFERRED


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#1 Jeff Norman

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:29 PM

Looking to partner with an excellent cinematographer, ideally a talented female DP, to work with on shooting my short student film (one-day shoot). Ideally will have lights and a full set of lenses for work. 

Will be interviewing DP's for a shoot to take place in early February in NYC.

Please reply with your website, your IMDb page, and your favorite filmmaker. 


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#2 Richard Boddington

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:06 PM

Since we are not allowed to post job ads on this site that read, "I prefer a male DP," as that is clear employment discrimination.  Neither should you be able to post an ad stating that you prefer a female DP.

 

R,


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#3 Jeff Norman

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:02 AM

Hello! I appreciate your reply. However, this is not discrimination. Female DP's out outnumbered and underrepresented by a disturbingly large margin compared to their male counterparts. So if I intentionally move to seek out a female head of crew, there should be support for that gesture, not derision. Thanks.


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#4 Richard Boddington

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 01:44 AM

Sorry Jeff but you are discriminating, you can't hire or not hire someone based on their gender, race, religion, etc.  Hiring a woman because she is a woman, is the same as hiring a man because he is man.  I can't make a post on here offering a job to men only now can I?  The fact that women are under represented as DOPs makes no difference, discrimination is discrimination, it's why labour laws exist in the USA and Canada.

 

R,


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#5 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 02:14 AM

You could instead say that female DOPs are encouraged to apply, and will not be discriminated against despite the overwhelming gender imbalance that pervades this field.  :)

 

 

 

 


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#6 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:13 AM

I'm afraid I incline toward the Boddington point of view on this. The problems with positive discrimination are well enough aired that I'm not going to air them again, but valid nonetheless.

 

As a purely practical matter I suspect nobody can prevent someone else from pursuing a gender initiative with respect to employment practices, but I don't think it's something that can legitimately be considered a moral crusade.

 

P


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#7 Freya Black

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:27 AM

I have to say that I don't see why positive discrimination is so much worse than the usual kind and as Phil suggests you can't really stop people from pursuing discrimination very easily. In fact this kind of thing clearly goes on all the time.

 

Freya


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#8 Michael LaVoie

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:07 AM

As a DP, I prefer to be hired  for my talent, speed and on set demeanor.  Not my camera package or my gender.  I suspect most women feel the same way.  Even if your intentions are good, I'd keep them off the record as women will likely apply anyway.  Good luck.


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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:19 PM

I have to say that I don't see why positive discrimination is so much worse than the usual kind

 

It isn't - it's exactly the same as the usual kind.

 

P


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#10 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:24 PM

The disturbing thing is that you don't see your post as edging towards discriminatory. The moment a potential applicant hesitates to apply due to the fact that they feel as if they won't get the job because of a certain group of select categories (Richard mentioned 3 of them and they vary from city to city, state to state and federal level,) you are in violation of Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) laws.

As a union member in NYC, I can tell you that you need to become familiar with the local, state & federal EEO laws. The only thing that saves you in my opinion is the way you phrase your original post. But if you want to lead the crusade for more female DPs to have more opportunities, by all means go for it. But this is not the way to do it since your post - as everyone else has pointed out - borders on being discriminatory.

Another thing to consider is this: I meet all your requirements (including the equipment) but I would not apply because - based on your posts in this thread - you would most likely have your priorities for the project completely reversed, and I therefore see a disaster in the making. The only thing you should be concerned with regarding your DP is whether or not he or she will be able to realize the vision you have in your head.

Sorry if this seems harsh but you needed a wake-up call.

Edited by Bill DiPietra, 22 December 2014 - 12:27 PM.

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#11 Richard Boddington

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 05:57 PM

Here's some info you can take to the bank Jeff.  The film industry does not discriminate, it treats everyone like garbage regardless of your race, gender, creed, or sexual orientation.  It's one of the few industries that treats everyone equally as bad  :D

 

R,


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#12 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:58 PM

Here's some info you can take to the bank Jeff.  The film industry does not discriminate, it treats everyone like garbage regardless of your race, gender, creed, or sexual orientation.  It's one of the few industries that treats everyone equally as bad  :D

 

R,

 

Unfortunately that's rubbish. Here's a breakdown of gender roles in the film industry as researched by the New York Film Academy, based on the top 250 films of 2012:

 

Gender balance in film.jpg

 

The imbalance in the sphere of cinematography is particularly severe, just 2% of DOPs in this study were women. There is absolutely no reason for this level of imbalance beyond the fact that certain roles in the film industry are protected by entrenched discrimination.

 

The full study can be found here:

http://nofilmschool....er-bias-in-film

 

The outrage displayed by white males at the very idea that they might be discriminated against is hilarious in the context of these kinds of statistics. 


Edited by Dom Jaeger, 22 December 2014 - 07:59 PM.

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#13 Richard Boddington

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 09:20 PM

Clearly Dom you have zero sense of humour, do not spend much time on set, and you don't know what this :D  means.

 

As for your stats, yes that's all well and good.  The point remains, in the USA and Canada labour laws prevent employers from discriminating based on gender.

 

Oh and BTW Dom, there is nothing in your stats that says "white men", it just says men.

 

R,


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#14 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 01:23 AM

OK Richard, in the spirit of Christmas I apologise for using the premise of your joke as a springboard to talk about "serious" stuff.

 

Hopefully the mention of Christmas hasn't broken any labour laws..  :ph34r:  

 

Those statistics are pretty astonishing though, don't you think?


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#15 Richard Boddington

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 02:16 AM

Those statistics are pretty astonishing though, don't you think?

 

It's nothing one doesn't realize from reading the credits of a movie or TV show.  What is the answer, I have no idea?

 

I would like to know how many women at the high school and college level are interested in a film career for starters?  If there are few, then you will end up with few working in it professionally.  

 

I have never in my life seen a female auto mechanic in either the USA or Canada.  When I was in auto shop in high school it was 100% boys.  Same for the drafting and electronics classes I was in.  Girls were certainly not barred from tech class at my high school, but none of them signed up.  Maybe they were not interested?  Maybe the school needed a "girls only" tech class so that girls would not be intimidated sitting in a tech class with a bunch of boys?

 

Where's the hue and cry to get women to become auto mechanics? I don't hear it.  There is a lot of noise out there now regarding the lack of female directors, I haven't anything about there being few women DOPs.  I'll opine an opinion that since directing is the glamour and power position in movies, it's the focus of feminists who want to see more lady directors.

 

I'm not hearing any complaining about the lack of women working as DOPs, ACs, grips, and electrics.  Maybe because these are viewed as being less glamorous?

 

In any regard, everyone is welcome in the film industry and it's hard for everyone.  Being a white male hasn't really helped me, it's tough no matter what.  And that was the point of my earlier post.

 

We have very few working film professional women registered on this site, why?

 

R,


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#16 Freya Black

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:44 AM

 


Where's the hue and cry to get women to become auto mechanics? I don't hear it.  There is a lot of noise out there now regarding the lack of female directors, I haven't anything about there being few women DOPs.  I'll opine an opinion that since directing is the glamour and power position in movies, it's the focus of feminists who want to see more lady directors.

 

I think that's because the media is seen to be more influencing of other people than car mechanics. When you have a very monocultural setup it often leads to problems. This is especially the case in the media. It's very visible here in the UK because all our media is largely really, really odd and unrepresentative. We have completely bizzare radio and TV channels for example and they are getting worse. We also have movies that are never anything to do with anything in the country for the most part and when they are they are also odd.

 

Freya


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#17 Freya Black

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:46 AM


 

We have very few working film professional women registered on this site, why?

 

R,

 

See Dom's graph above.

 

Freya


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#18 Freya Black

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:58 AM

 

It isn't - it's exactly the same as the usual kind.

 

P

 

Yet there isn't anyone up in arms about the current situation, just when someone talks about trying to do something about it. Then it's suddenly a big problem.

 

I actually agree with Richards original post that you shouldn't put that in a job ad.

After all there are plenty of people who clearly don't want to hire women but they don't advertise this fact so if you DO want to hire women you should have the same policy. That's equality. ;)

 

A lot of this stuff actually has quite a negative effect.

In my own experience there are often people who want to do some minor token thing to help women but they make a song and dance about doing so and the backlash is often way more brutal than any advantage that could be gained (in fact it's usually the case that there is ZERO advantage in the first place and now they have just made the woman in question look really bad and she has had no choice in the matter!)

 

Freya


Edited by Freya Black, 23 December 2014 - 06:58 AM.

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#19 Freya Black

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:02 AM

 

Yet there isn't anyone up in arms about the current situation, just when someone talks about trying to do something about it. Then it's suddenly a big problem.

 

 

On the flipside this thread has actually been way more positive than the threads we used to have on this forum about how women shouldn't be involved in cinematography and that they weren't capable and that they weren't strong enough to carry the equipment and that a film set was run like the army etc etc. I can't even remember all the bizzare and silly stuff we used to have in those threads.

 

Well I say we, obviously I didn't get involved in them. I just sat back and ate the popcorn.

 

Freya


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#20 Freya Black

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:40 AM

 

Thanks Dom!

That is a really handy and useful graph! :)

 

Freya


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