Jump to content


Photo

KODAK ditches K40 and announces a new stock


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#1 Scot McPhie

Scot McPhie
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 211 posts

Posted 09 May 2005 - 05:37 PM

From the Kodak web site:

Kodak celebrates 40th anniversary of super 8 film announces new color reversal product to portfolio

ROCHESTER, NY, May 9 -- From its beginnings as the home movie medium of the 1960s, Super 8 film is alive and well and serving a vital segment of today's filmmaking industry.

Eastman Kodak Company remains committed to providing Super 8 camera users a range of products and creative choices. As such, Kodak has added a new color reversal film to its Super 8 portfolio -- the super-saturated, fine grain EKTACHROME 64T motion picture film, available in August of this year.

"Introduced in 1965, Super 8 film has found new life with each new generation of filmmakers that continue to embrace the format," said Bob Mayson, general manager and vice president for Image Capture products, Entertainment Imaging at Eastman Kodak Company. "Forty years after its introduction, this small-gauge film still provides an easy, inexpensive way for students and enthusiasts to work at film resolutions and color depths as yet unmatched by the latest digital technologies."

"In fact, many of today's great cinematographers and directors began their careers decades ago, at the counter of their local photo shop, buying a cartridge of Super 8 film."

"That's why Kodak has continued to invest in the Super 8 business," he added. "And we're just thrilled to introduce this vivid, new emulsion to the marketplace. It's a great new product with very high image quality and excellent color reproduction, providing our Super 8 customers another creative tool for their toolbox."

The new 64T expands the current Super 8 portfolio that includes two black and white reversal films -- in medium and high speeds covering a range of lighting situations.

Super 8 customers will also find latest VISION2 technologies available in 200T and 500T speeds -- incorporating the highest quality images, improved sharpness and grain, along with a full systems approach, optimizing the entire imaging chain.

"With Super 8 gates now available for high end scanners, coupled with the VISION2 film technology advancements, Super 8 is what 16mm film used to be," says Mayson. "Super 8 color negative has become another option for professionals with low budgets."

As part of the portfolio revamp, Kodak will discontinue sales of its Super 8 Kodachrome film. Final sales of Kodachrome Super 8 will be based on product availability over the coming months. Sales of Kodachrome 16mm film will continue, unaffected by this announcement.

The decision to discontinue Kodachrome in Super 8 was driven entirely by marketplace dynamics.

"Because the 'home movie' market has shifted to digital, sales of Kodachrome Super 8 film have declined significantly. In tandem with that decline, the availability of processing for Kodachrome Super 8 cartridges has diminished. In other words, fewer and fewer labs worldwide have the machines and the chemistry necessary to process this film emulsion in the Super 8 format," according to Mayson.

Kodak will give customers at least a year to process their Kodachrome Super 8 film with Kodak or to seek an alternative.

As noted earlier, Kodak remains committed to the Super 8 format, as evidenced by the new film announced today, building on a product line that covers the needs of enthusiasts, from a choice of stocks in negative, Black and White and reversal films. Kodak's intent is to maintain the format as long as it is supported by marketplace conditions.
 


  • 0

#2 Jack Honeycutt

Jack Honeycutt
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:44 PM

I can't believe that Kodak is dumping K-40 in Super8. I would think that Kodak sells more K-40 stock in Super8 than any other film type (JMHO). K-40 is the rock that keeps Super8 alive. I am very sorry to see it go. Good thing I am moving to 16 mm. Sniff!

Sad day.....

jack
  • 0

#3 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:12 PM

I can't believe that Kodak is dumping K-40 in Super8.  I would think that Kodak sells more K-40 stock in Super8 than any other film type (JMHO). K-40 is the rock that keeps Super8 alive.  I am very sorry to see it go. Good thing I am moving to 16 mm.  Sniff!

Sad day..... 

jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sure it's a sad day, but one of hope too. Only two labs still offer the K-14 process for KODACHROME Super-8 film. Many more labs are likely to offer E-6 processing.
  • 0

#4 xoct

xoct
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 70 posts

Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:29 PM

Sure it's a sad day, but one of hope too.  Only two labs still offer the K-14 process for KODACHROME Super-8 film.  Many more labs are likely to offer E-6 processing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



John, can you please give us some assurance that this film is going to have similar color saturation and grain as the K40? Any real information is helpful before I spend thousands of dollars stocking up on my favorite stock. I'm guessing that it has higher light sensitivity since the number is slightly higher. But please give us more information than the vague press release. Thanks. And no, this is not a hopeful day unless this stock is as inexpensive to purchase and develop as K40 and rivals its character.
  • 0

#5 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 09 May 2005 - 08:43 PM

Sure it's a sad day, but one of hope too.  Only two labs still offer the K-14 process for KODACHROME Super-8 film.  Many more labs are likely to offer E-6 processing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's because Kodak refused to help out labs that WANTED to offer Kodachrome 40 processing and DESTROYED existing kodachrome 40 processing equipment in the early 90's as well.

Yale, Rocky Mountain, probably even Spectra Film and Video would have bent over backwards to offer the processing. If you kill it it will stop.

Looks like it's a slam dunk day for Pro-8mm. No more K-40, and NO ASA 100 OR ASA 50 Vision T to replace it, only Pro-8mm carries that.

No spin will work here, Kodak should just throw in the towel, it's obvious by the way they treat Super-8 they already have their exit plan in place for 16mm and 35mm.
  • 0

#6 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:11 PM

John, can you please give us some assurance that this film is going to have similar color saturation and grain as the K40?  Any real information is helpful before I spend thousands of dollars stocking up on my favorite stock.  I'm guessing that it has higher light sensitivity since the number is slightly higher.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The technical data is on the Kodak website:

http://www.kodak.com...s/e130/e130.pdf
  • 0

#7 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:47 PM

That's because Kodak refused to help out labs that WANTED to offer Kodachrome 40 processing and DESTROYED existing kodachrome 40 processing equipment in the early 90's as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sorry Alessandro, but you have incorrect information. :huh: In 1997, Kodak invested millions to make KODACHROME processing more available at more labs with the K-Lab program:

http://www.kodak.com...abs/index.shtml

For the past 20 years, KODACHROME Film has been developed using Process K-14 - known for its heavy demands on capital space, time, and operator attention. The improvements in this film processing made possible by the new KODAK K-Lab Processor will bring significant benefits to those areas and more.

Like traditional Process K-14, K-LAB is a cine-processor in which individual rolls of film are strung together in a magazine to make a long strand of film that runs through the processor. At the end, the processed film simply winds onto another reel ready for mounting and packaging.

Space requirements are a prime example of the advantages of the K-LAB Processor. The K-14 processor itself uses 1,000 or more square feet of floor space and its support requirements (including mixing and storage tanks, a full analytical laboratory and bulk chemical storage) can take 10,000 or more square feet of space. Requiring only 46 square feet of floor space, the K-LAB Processor can fit through a standard 32-inch doorway. The total space required by a K-LAB System (including processing unit, replenishment rack, computer, splicer, and mounter) can be as small as 200 square feet of floor space.


http://www.kodak.com...nuals/z50.shtml

As far as destroying existing K-14 processing machines from Kodak/Qualex labs, it's likely the machines were either too big or too old for other labs to want them.
  • 0

#8 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:49 PM

I've shot with the new Ektachrome 100D in 16mm, and if that is any indication, 64T should prove to be quite similar to K-40 in grain structure. But it won't be the same, ya know?

I just got one of the last Kodachrome 25asa batches in R8. Guess I'll buy some K-40 in S8 now too. I will miss it, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape over it either. The new Ekta also means that, guess what, YOU CAN CROSS-PROCESS IT! That's right folk, at some loss in speed your 64T can suddenly become 50T negative. I've gotten quite good at filtering cross-processed E-6 Ektachrome at my day job, the results are really quite interesting, and in some cases deliver a better result than you'd imagine.
  • 0

#9 J. Lamar King

J. Lamar King
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 764 posts
  • Gaffer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:52 PM

No spin will work here, Kodak should just throw in the towel, it's obvious by the way they treat Super-8 they already have their exit plan in place for 16mm and 35mm.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hey, they released a NEW Super-8 stock. I say that is very good news. Super-8 lives on.

Though, this does mean I'll never get to finish my animated Lego Castle epic begun when I was 13.

Edited by J. Lamar King, 09 May 2005 - 09:54 PM.

  • 0

#10 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:02 PM

Sorry Alessandro, but you have incorrect information.  :huh:  In 1997, Kodak invested millions to make KODACHROME processing more available at more labs with the K-Lab program:

http://www.kodak.com...abs/index.shtml
http://www.kodak.com...nuals/z50.shtml

As far as destroying existing K-14 processing machines from Kodak/Qualex labs, it's likely the machines were either too big or too old for other labs to want them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Those specs were NOT for Super-8 processing and I'd assume you knew that. Super-8 needed more agitation. The only lab in the country, and it's not in Hollywood, pretty ridiculous don't you think?

Pro-8mm made out like a bandit as the current shenanigans go, and that's what they are, shenanigans.

NO ASA 100 or 50 in the vision stock available, only Pro-8mm stocks it, and the one stock that gave Pro-8mm a run for it's money, that it had no control over, K-40, is now gone.

Can you say payoff. I can.
  • 0

#11 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:03 PM

Though, this does mean I'll never get to finish my animated Lego Castle epic begun when I was 13.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.
My Super-8 "epic" was the only time I played with Barbie Dolls. ;)

You can always finish your production on the new EKTACHROME film. And the Kodak lab in Switzerland plans on offering the K-14 process for Super-8 for at least another year, giving you time to finish that roll of K-40.
  • 0

#12 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:26 PM

Those specs were NOT for Super-8 processing and I'd assume you knew that.  Super-8 needed more agitation.

You accused Kodak of not trying to help labs offer KODACHROME processing.  The K-Lab program was a major investment by Kodak to do just that.

The only lab in the country, and it's not in Hollywood, pretty ridiculous don't you think?

KODACHROME film and Super-8 are not major factors in motion picture production in Hollywood. 

Pro-8mm made out like a bandit as the current shenanigans go, and that's what they are, shenanigans.

NO ASA 100 or 50 in the vision stock available, only Pro-8mm stocks it, and the one stock that gave Pro-8mm a run for it's money, that it had no control over, K-40, is now gone.

Can you say payoff.  I can.

Making false accusations based on incorrect information is wrong.  :angry:


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


  • 0

#13 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:38 PM

Kodachrome hasn't been a top seller no matter which format for kodak in years. Frankly, I'm surprised it has survived this long. The core technology is facinating, despite its age, and its longevity is assured, but I say let's give the big K a chance here. For all we know, the new stock will be just what the doctor ordered. If not, then we let Kodak know, and let us see how things go from there. But you're damning the new stock before the full details have been announced, really poor sports. So come on, give the big K one chance here.
  • 0

#14 SkipA

SkipA
  • Guests

Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:04 AM

John P., is the new Super 8 64T film really the same as EPY? I just don't see how it can be.

I shoot EPY in 4x5 and 8x10, and I would never describe it as "super-saturated" as Kodak describes the new 64T film for Super 8. I'd call it color faithful and realistic, perhaps. It is a lovely film, for sure. Unless EPY is being reformulated for Super 8 projection, I simply can't see it being described as "super-saturated". Fuji Velvia 50 is super-saturated. Kodak E100VS is super-saturated. Heck, even Fuji RTP II is more saturated than EPY. I'd hate to see any change to EPY.

If it is EPY, then is it still a 3200K film in its S8 incarnation? Will we need an 85B filter instead of an 85 for shooting in daylight?
  • 0

#15 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:30 AM

Kodachrome hasn't been a top seller no matter which format for kodak in years.  Frankly, I'm surprised it has survived this long. 



huh? Kodachrome IS THE NUMBER ONE SELLING SUPER-8 FILM PRODUCT.
  • 0

#16 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:36 AM

You accused Kodak of not trying to help labs offer KODACHROME processing.  The K-Lab program was a major investment by Kodak to do just that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


BUT NOT FOR SUPER-8.


The only lab in the country, and it's not in Hollywood, pretty ridiculous don't you think?

KODACHROME film and Super-8 are not major factors in motion picture production in Hollywood.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, if Kodak destroys it of course they won't come. Not one attempt to try and offer Kodachrome 40 in Hollywood in the last 18 years, meanwhile people are fedexing their Kodachrome 40 to Parson's Kansas. Not much of an option, wouldn't you agree?

Hollywood won't consider anything legitimate if it cannot be turned around in under 24 hours, preferably overnight or morning in, afternoon out.
  • 0

#17 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:48 AM

This is a chicken and the egg argument.

Kodak did not take Kodachrome away from Hollywood at its height of popularity; Hollywood used more convenient color processes (like color negative by 1950) or superior processes (like 3-strip Technicolor until 1955) and Kodachrome was a low-usage format for Hollywood studios. Have you ever seen some of the 35mm Kodachrome features made in Hollywood? They NEVER looked as good as 3-strip Technicolor or later Eastmancolor movies because it's a format that makes LOUSY prints due to its high gamma and the methods of duping it for printing back then.

Lots of people cried when 3-strip Technicolor died off, but no one missed Kodachrome features in Hollywood because it was not a superior color process for movies that need to make release prints.

These decisions are market-driven, not driven by some sort of spite you think Kodak has against Kodachrome; by your logic, Kodak has some sort of insane anti-commercial desire to kill off a profitable and highly popular film process just because it hates it for some illogical reason.

This is more a case of a process that has lost popularity over the years in the profitable 35mm markets (still and cine) for various PRACTICAL reasons, and the 35mm market affects all other formats, and Super-8 is just suffering from collateral damage.

If Kodak really wanted to kill off the Super-8 market, why even come out with the stocks that they have? Why offer any?
  • 0

#18 Anthony Schilling

Anthony Schilling
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1053 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Portland, OR

Posted 10 May 2005 - 12:54 AM

I'm excited about the 64T.. will it be available in 16mm as well? the film schools would like that. I'll miss K-40 but not its limitations. Even if 64T is slightly grainier, it will have fewer limitations.. and make better use of its fine grains than K-40 could. IF this Super 8 64T has the same color saturation that Kodak suggests (sounding similar to 100D) people won't be missing K-40.
  • 0

#19 Scot McPhie

Scot McPhie
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 211 posts

Posted 10 May 2005 - 06:51 AM

Any idea on what the exposure latitiude of this new stock will be? - I don't like the high contrast/low latitide look of K 40 that much


Scot
  • 0

#20 Nate Downes

Nate Downes
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1638 posts
  • Florida, USA

Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:18 AM

Scottness:

I don't know exactly, but it is an E6 stock. You can manipulate it to change the exposure, contrast and gamma during processing, something you can't really do with Kodachrome. I've seen E6's that looked very old-school, and some that looked ultra-modern. All in the processing.
  • 0


FJS International, LLC

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Metropolis Post

Opal

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineLab

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

Wooden Camera

Abel Cine

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

Opal