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I'm New to Super 8, Could Use Some Advice!

super 8 autozoom 518 exposure cartridge

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#1 Leo Garcia

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 04:19 AM

Hello, everyone! I know there's probably a bunch of "I'm new" threads on here every so often, but I'd really appreciate it if I could get some help from the people who know this format way better than I do.

 

I recently purchased a Canon Autozoom 518 as my first Super 8 camera. I admit that I might not have done as much research as I should have, because only now am I finding out that it only goes as high as 160 ASA. I don't think it will be a big deal to overexpose 200 ASA film by 1/3 of an f-stop, but then again, I don't really understand much about exposure and film speed.

 

I'd be filming mostly in daylight, with some interior shots added here and there. As far as I understand it, Vision3 50D works best for natural light, while 200T is better suited to bright interior lighting (though it can also be shot in daylight with the camera's filter). I plan to scan all the footage I shoot. With this in mind, my questions are:

 

1. How much would the overexposure on 200 ASA films (Vision3, Wittnerchrome) affect the footage?

2. Would it be possible at all to shoot 500 ASA film on the camera? Should I get an ND filter if I choose to do so?

 

3. Would I be better off letting the camera set the exposure automatically or should I look into manual exposure?

 

4. Would I need to notch hack any of the cartridges? I plan on buying Kodak's 50D and 200T, in addition to Wittnerchrome 200D. In addition, I'm kind of lost when it comes to the camera's Tungsten and Daylight filters and what they do.

 

5. What film stock would give me the best results in my scenario? I'm looking for a fair amount of grain (though maybe not quite as much as the Wittnerchrome stock has) and vivid colors. I'm looking to stay away from a flat image as much as possible.

 

6. What processing and scanning service provide the best results? I was planning on having the reversal stock developed at Dwayne's Photo or Pro8mm, the color negatives processed at Cinelab and the scanning done at Gamma Ray Digital @ 2K, but if there are better options I'd love to know about them!

 

7. Is there any general advice I should know before shooting my first roll? Despite having read a lot about the format, I feel like you can never be too careful when trying out something new and unfamiliar.

 

Thank you!

 


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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 04:34 AM

Neg overexposure is no problem, but I'd want to be able to get it right for the Wittnerchrome (actually Agfa Aviphot). Exposure is much more critical for reversal.

There isn't actually a setting for 200 in any Super-8 camera so you are probaly  limited to manual exposure.

Flatness is more a matter of lighting  than stock choice.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 27 December 2014 - 04:39 AM.

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#3 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 11:05 AM

I think the 200T would work best since it has enough grain but still looks awesome. A 1/3rd stop over-exposure on negative film is actually recommended a lot of times for super 8 because it will add a little bit of density, then you can make it pop in post very easily. I wouldn't even waste my time with the Agfa 200D reversal, it looks like garbage on every scan i have seen so far. If you want color reversal, wait a few months and see how the new Ferrania 100D is.  


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#4 Maik Lobborn

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 11:54 AM

Well, the Ferrania will be very grainy. RMS 13 @ 100 ASA. The Agfa/Wittner 200D is finer in grain at double the speed (RMS 12 @ 200 ASA). A very forgiving stock for decent reversal results in Super 8 and 16mm even at night or in mixed light situations. Very nice, natural colors.

Examples Super 8






Example 16mm




Buy here: http://www.buy8mmfilm.com

Edited by Maik Lobborn, 27 December 2014 - 11:59 AM.

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#5 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 12:26 PM

Leo - I absolutely love your profile picture!


Edited by Bill DiPietra, 27 December 2014 - 12:26 PM.

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#6 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 12:37 PM

Well, the Ferrania will be very grainy. RMS 13 @ 100 ASA. The Agfa/Wittner 200D is finer in grain at double the speed (RMS 12 @ 200 ASA). A very forgiving stock for decent reversal results in Super 8 and 16mm even at night or in mixed light situations. Very nice, natural colors.

Examples Super 8



 

Sorry, Maik, but the two Super 8 clips you posted are also quite grainy.  Judging by the videos some other members have posted (in previous threads,) the Kodak stocks still seem to be the winners when it comes to fine-grained film.


Edited by Bill DiPietra, 27 December 2014 - 12:38 PM.

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#7 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 12:47 PM

Leo - take a look at this thread.  You may find it somewhat helpful: http://www.cinematog...showtopic=65520

 

Also, I'd stick with Kodak's 50D for the daylight shots.  It's a gorgeous stock in any format.


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#8 Leo Garcia

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 02:24 PM

Thanks for all the replies, everyone!

 

I'm a little mixed on the Afga/Wittner because I like its grain but the colors are quite desaturated... I feel like I'd be better off sticking with Kodak and waiting to see what the Ferrania stock looks like.

 

Thank you for all the sample clips, too. I think I'll stick with 200T and 50D! I'm still wondering if 500T would be usable at all with all the overexposure my camera would do to it. Maybe under extremely low light...?

 

Also, if anyone has any input on processing and scanning, I'm all ears!

 

Leo - I absolutely love your profile picture!

 

Thank you!! I drew it myself.


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#9 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 02:27 PM

Thank you!! I drew it myself.

 

You should be getting jobs as a storyboard artist, then.


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#10 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:07 PM

Well, the Ferrania will be very grainy. RMS 13 @ 100 ASA. The Agfa/Wittner 200D is finer in grain at double the speed (RMS 12 @ 200 ASA). A very forgiving stock for decent reversal results in Super 8 and 16mm even at night or in mixed light situations. Very nice, natural colors.

Examples Super 8
 

Hopefully not, they say the first order of business is to lower the granularity so we shall see. Your samples are the best i've seen so far but still falls too short of the other E6 films and K40.


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#11 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 10:38 AM

Well, the Ferrania will be very grainy. RMS 13 @ 100 ASA. The Agfa/Wittner 200D is finer in grain at double the speed (RMS 12 @ 200 ASA). A very forgiving stock for decent reversal results in Super 8 and 16mm even at night or in mixed light situations. Very nice, natural colors.

 

Says who? Why do people bring up this dysinformation. As if all will be the same as twenty years ago.


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#12 David Cunningham

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 12:21 PM

Says who? Why do people bring up this dysinformation. As if all will be the same as twenty years ago.


Because they themselves have said it will be the same emulsion as 20 years ago.
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#13 Maik Lobborn

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 12:27 PM

I have asked this question and got this reply from Dave Bias from FilmFerrania

"A data sheet for ScotchChrome was posted a while back: http://www.filmferrania.it/news/chrome
The factory team will be closely reproducing this formula in producing our new film."

The data sheet shows clearly RMS 13 @ 100 ASA
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#14 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 12:32 PM

Because they themselves have said it will be the same emulsion as 20 years ago.

It will but it's going to be an updated version in which improving grain is the first priority. They know everyone wants something in the ballpark of K40, E100D, or Velvia so we'll see what they come up with here soon. My reasonable expectations are something similar to E64T's grain... Not as tight as 100D/K40 but better than VNF and Agffa 200D.

 

The V3 50D is very fine grain, but will still have some visible grain in S8. 200T will give you slightly more if you're looking for lower-fi


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#15 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 12:55 PM

The V3 50D is very fine grain, but will still have some visible grain in S8. 200T will give you slightly more if you're looking for lower-fi

 

Granted, I'm speaking in 16mm terms, but these days all of Kodak's stocks are pretty fine-grained.  I had to push 7219 (500T) two stops to get noticeable granularity, so it's almost non-existent in 50D.  With Super 8, you will always more grain.  But I suspect it's a loss less than when I last shot it (about 15 years ago) with the way Kodak has improved the Vision 3 stocks.

 

As for the Ferrania stocks, we will just have to see what kind of product they come up with.


Edited by Bill DiPietra, 28 December 2014 - 12:58 PM.

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#16 David Cunningham

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 04:47 PM

It will but it's going to be an updated version in which improving grain is the first priority. They know everyone wants something in the ballpark of K40, E100D, or Velvia so we'll see what they come up with here soon. My reasonable expectations are something similar to E64T's grain... Not as tight as 100D/K40 but better than VNF and Agffa 200D.
 
The V3 50D is very fine grain, but will still have some visible grain in S8. 200T will give you slightly more if you're looking for lower-fi


They will be producing the original to start and improving later. The initial release will be the classic Ferrania Chrome 100D.
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#17 Carl Looper

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 06:07 AM

The Ferrania datasheet was just for reference. The following is a quote from the intro to that datasheet:

 

The new film is a re-engineered version of the Scotch Chrome 100 previously produced by the IMATION company and it does not have anything in common with the old 3M slide film from '70s. Is was a modern film available in three speeds: 100, 640 and 800/3200 ISO that we are going to reintroduce on the market in an improved version and finished also in motion picture small formats.

 

http://www.filmferrania.it/news/chrome


Edited by Carl Looper, 13 January 2015 - 06:09 AM.

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#18 Maik Lobborn

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:58 AM

Sure, but I have asked this question and got this reply from Dave Bias from FilmFerrania only a few weeks ago:

"A data sheet for ScotchChrome was posted a while back: http://www.filmferrania.it/news/chrome
The factory team will be closely reproducing this formula in producing our new film."


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#19 David Cunningham

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 08:49 AM

With the history of new film companies like the Impossible Project I'll be happy if the first run is tolerable and just a bit better than AGFA 200D. I can dream that some many years down the road they might come close to Velvia, Provia or E100D. But, I doubt it.
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#20 Carl Looper

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 03:26 AM

Sure, but I have asked this question and got this reply from Dave Bias from FilmFerrania only a few weeks ago:

"A data sheet for ScotchChrome was posted a while back: http://www.filmferrania.it/news/chrome
The factory team will be closely reproducing this formula in producing our new film."

 

What was the question you asked of them?

 

I assume from their answer that you were asking them for a data sheet - which they don't yet have - obviously - otherwise they wouldn't be posting an old one. So I'd be interpreting their answer as saying the datasheet is as close as possible to what the film will be, rather than the film will be as close as possible to what the data sheet is.

 

That's the only way to reconcile their answer to you, with what they are otherwise saying.

 

I'd suggest.

 

C


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