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IRND with 35mm


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#1 Christopher Lew

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 08:06 PM

Hello,

 

I was wondering if anyone has had experience shooting 35mm with stacked IRND filters. I was wondering if there is a color shift similar to what you get stacking IRND's with a digital sensor (that blueish shade). 

 

I'm looking to get a set of ND's and am wondering if there's a need to spend the extra cash on the IR versions. If not i'll just go for the regular solid ND's. 

 

Thanks!

Chris 


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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 08:49 PM

IR pollution is a bit different than the color cast issue of heavy ND's.  Really heavy ND's can have a color bias to them but generally with film you aren't using the super heavy ones, but still there is some color tint that may need to be timed out.  IR pollution affects the blacks of certain fabrics, causing them to look purple or some other color.  That can't be timed out so easily.

 

But generally you don't need IR added to your ND's for shooting on film.


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#3 Christopher Lew

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 04:16 AM

Thanks David! 

 

Always informative responses! So you're saying I wouldn't notice anything off with color using IRND's shooting 35mm? If not I'm probably better off getting them anyways to cover myself for any digital shoots. 

 

chris 


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#4 Oron Cohen

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 05:28 AM

If not I'm probably better off getting them anyways to cover myself for any digital shoots. 

 

chris 

As Mr Mullen said IRND are almost never used when shooting film. As for digital, I wouldn't necessarily just get IRND's, it really depends on the camera you choose.

 

Nowadays, most pro super35 cameras either got internal ND's (Sony F5/F55/FS7, Canon C300/C500, Arri Amira and more) and some like the RED Dragon don't need IRND's. Also some that does, like the Alexa (at least older models) you could use IR cut off filter on top of normal ND's if I'm not mistaken. 

 

That leaves us mainly with Blackmagic Cameras and some DSLR cameras and even then mainly when using ND's over 0.9 or even 1.2 depends on the camera really. 

 

So the main question would be, do you want it for General purpose use or for a specific camera? 

 

If General, I'll actually think if you really need more then one or two ND's and probably go for normal once not IR as a long time investment.

Also, because Many cameras today already have internal ND's I would consider to get some ND's plus one or two Soft FX filters or similar that cut out some of digital edge from the image, that could actually be more useful. 

 

So for example getting: ND 0.6+1.2+Soft FX 1 or 0.6 +0.9+IR cut off+Black Promist etc etc)

 

Hope this helps. 


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#5 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 03:29 PM

Most IRND's that I've seen cancel out the magenta cast caused by IR on Sony and Arri camera sensors by adding green to the filter. So on film you can expect IRNDs to look green. Hot Mirror ND's, which only work on Red/Epic MX sensors reflect IR instead of absorbing them, so they would most likely be fine on film.

I would instead be looking at Mitomo TrueNDs and Rosco Firecrest NDs if I was buying now. I don't know how they work, but the TrueNDs are very neutral on both Red MX sensors (with the original OLPF and also with Dragon+Skin Tone OLPF), and Sony F65/55/5. Haven't tried them with Alexa yet. They are non-mirror coated. And they look neutral to the eye, so I'm guessing they would work fine on film as well. The Firecrests are supposed to be similar, though I haven't seen them in person.
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#6 Larry DeGala

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 01:06 PM

I was using Tiffen 4 x 5.65 ND 1.8 with circular PL and got massive red shift (on digital camera, BMCC 4K). I got hot mirror ND 1.8 and still ended up with red shift. I forgot to remove the circular PL. Everything looks great. The circular PL was attenuating IR pollution. Go figger!

You won't need hot mirror for film negative. Maybe just a UV-B/haze filter just to protect your front element from scratches.
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#7 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 02:32 PM

Yea, I've had nothing but troubles with non IRND filters and my blackmagic cameras. It took me forever to figure out the problem because I've mostly shot on film and the problem doesn't exist.
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#8 Christopher Lew

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 07:47 PM

Thanks everyone for the input!


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#9 Satsuki Murashige

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Posted 11 August 2015 - 07:50 PM

Also, I was wrong about the Firecrest NDs, they are made by Formatt not Rosco. Still have not seen a set in person.


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