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OXBERRY 3100 max f/sec ?

buiding a telecine/printer

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#1 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 01:17 PM

Hi,

 

does annyone know how many frames per sec the OXBERRY 3100 can do?

I'm building a Filmscanner out of an Oxberry 3100 + a Firenze System 1500 and a digital film camera (right now a BMPC 4K)

25f/sec is my goal, but do the mecanics of the Oxberry suport this speed?

 

thanks

Daniel


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#2 Mark Dunn

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 02:06 PM

Oxberry still appear to be in business . Why don't you call them?


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#3 John Rizzo

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:38 AM

I know other facilities that use the oxberry transports on DIY scanners and I know they run at least 16 fps. 


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#4 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 07:21 PM

Our Pin Registered Xena 4K scanner (real 4K with a monochrome sensor and three illuminations +IR per frame) is Oxberry shuttle based, I can set the transport to slew at high frame rates, but I don't.

 

It is not necessarily that the shuttle can't run at 24 or 25fps but if you are using the pin drive in a 3100, i.e. the pulldown claws to move film, without safety switches you can ruin allot of film very quickly.

 

If you really want to do it make sure you Loc-Tite all of the screws even the small ones on the shuttle a 3100 running at 25fps will make allot of noise and vibration.


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#5 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 03:50 AM

Thanks for the information.

 

I will try the 25f/sec as soon as I have finished buiding the scanner.

Actually 25/sec is what I aim to, as I know how to sync the BlackMagic Production camera to this speed, but maybe I will find also a way to sync it at slower speeds.

Right now I still have to change the mecanics of the oxberry in order to free the lightpath for the Firenze Light Mix unit.

 

thanks

Daniel


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#6 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 10:02 AM

I would suggest that when re designing the mechanics of the 3100 you put allot of thought into how the film is fed into and out of the shuttle, if it slips on one of the sprockets feeding or coming out of the shuttle the film will get tight very quickly and the pins in the shuttle will perforate it where it should not have perforations. The Oxberry Ox-Scan systems have allot of switches that stop the transport if something goes wrong.

 

Our Xena Pin scanner and other scanners like the Director or Northlight have individual servo motors and sprockets which feed and takeup from the shuttle and the shuttle is reg pins only i.e. there is no pulldown claw to move the film the two sprocket servos do the transportation. 

 

On out pinless machine there are no sprockets and the film is transported by a capstan.


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#7 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 01:34 PM

If it's marginal, do 12fps and do bracketed exposures with an LED backlight, perhaps?

 

Always wanted to build one of these, just never had a need for it.

 

P


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#8 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 11:36 PM

LED Intensity and color accuracy are pretty important, there are better sensors for scanning than the BM camera and at 25fps you will need allot of light for that sensor.

 

We are evaluating these cameras for the Pinless Machine right now:

 

http://www.jai.com/e...s/sp-20000-pmcl

 

I think this is the chip used in the Scan Station and Kinetta but I don't know that for certain, it does fit the requirements, it is a 10-bit camera.

 

and this:

 

http://imperx.com/cmos-cameras/c4080/

 

Which is less resolution but 12-bits.

 

The LED system on the Xena is RGB+IR and proprietary, has allot of LEDs and is expensive to make.


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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 04:33 AM

Slightly surprised you'd look at a global-shutter camera. Some specific reason for that, or is it just something that has the right specs? I guess it's a pretty enormous sensor anyway.


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#10 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 11:34 AM

The pinless servo Xena machine is continuous motion Phil no rolling shutter camera would work properly as skew would be introduced, the machine is currently using a Kodak-Trusense-On 3.4K CCD I don't think there are any rolling shutter sensors used in any scanner, possibly with exception of the Arriscan which uses their ALEV 3K sensor without a bayer mask.

 

The Pin Reg machine uses a now discontinued Monochrome full frame 4K CCD sensor with sequential color plus IR exposure.


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#11 Perry Paolantonio

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:01 PM

I'm fairly certain that JAI is what's in our 5k ScanStation. The picture quality is outstanding - I'm very impressed with it. For small gauge film, the downsampled 2k output looks really good: http://www.gammarayd...og/case-super2k

 

I know that Lasergraphics has a lot of proprietary stuff going on between sensor and disk though, so I'm not sure if you'd get the exact same result in a DIY setup. They're doing some of their own processing of the image to deal with sensor noise, plus each scanner's settings are individually calibrated since there are differences between the camera units.

 

The 35mm Imagica I'm rebuilding has an inexpensive rolling shutter camera in it now for testing (4.5k, though it looks best if you output 2k from it), but that works because the scanner is pin-registered, so it's an intermittent motion. Most likely I'll end up putting a mono sensor in this though, as I'm thinking of designing and building my own RGB+IR LED array. It won't be fast, but it should look great!

 

-perry


Edited by Perry Paolantonio, 17 January 2015 - 01:03 PM.

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#12 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:40 PM

Similarly Rennie's Xena software does a significant amount of image processing in OpenGL like field correction etc. plus it allows for color correction and does perf recognition. The Spark looks good but the new Cheetah (a ex-Kodak CMOS sensor) is a bit less resolution but less noise and 12-bits so it's not clear which one we are going to get for the pinless servo machine.

 

The 29Mp or 50Mp ex-Kodak CCDs are probably the ultimate film scanning sensors in monochrome


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#13 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:52 PM

The pinless servo Xena machine is continuous motion

 

...ah, I see.

 

Although that does raise the amusing possibility of timing the camera's readout to the motion of the film, flying-spot-telecine style. Er, I'll get my coat...

 

P


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#14 Perry Paolantonio

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 01:53 PM

Yeah, I've checked out those Kodak mono CCDs - really nice. I'm thinking something like 8k makes sense. I have 4-perf and 8-perf gates for the scanner, so it would be fun to be able to use that vistavision gate. Not that there's a lot of call for 8-perf scanning these days, but still...

 

As for the sensor, I figure I'll cross that bridge when I get to it though - I'm using a library for the camera control software that's made by the manufacturer of the test camera and its proprietary PCIe card - the nice thing is that it's compatible with their generic Cameralink cards as well, so swapping the camera out should be more or less seamless - just an inexpensive CameraLink card and the camera itself.

 

This has been a fun project, but it'd be nice to have some more free time to work on it!

 


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#15 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:43 PM

Hi,

 

the reason why I want to use the Blackmagic Production Camera is simply that I already have it.

I have used it sucessfully with modified Bauer P8 for 16mm and Bauer T610 for super8 and 8mm telecine, syncing it with Telecine Fälker Sync components.

In this configuration the global shutter is absolutely necessary because of the not so great steadyness of the filmtransport.

 

Now I want to build the new machine as I want to digitalize also 35mm and I would like to have also a more stable movemet for the 16mm.

Also the light mix head of the Firenze 1500 (no heat will reach the film although it is halogene light) will allow to make a kind of pregrade for older magenta filmrolls ecc.

 

This mashine shlould also allow to be used as an optical printer, by replacing the digital camera with a other oxberry or crass camera, for blow ups and crossconversions of super8 super16 and 35mm ecc.

 

Actually this is more something for my personal fun, as probably nobody else will need analog optical prints these days.

 

I will take in account the safety breaks and install some, and once I'm done with the mecanics, and everything works fine I might even think to use a better sensor than the BMPC4K :)

 

thanks

daniel


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#16 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:45 PM

by the way, I have 3 35mm 4perf Oxberry gates and one 8perf vistavision gate, but no 16mm Gate, so if someone needs a 35mm 4perf I would be happy to trade it for a 16mm gate.

(I have already the 16mm Sprocket)


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#17 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 19 January 2015 - 01:16 PM

Your best bet to find a 16mm shuttle is to keep looking at ebay for Oxberry and Acme camera parts, the 16mm shuttles are very hard to come by.


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#18 Peter Richards

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 05:40 AM

Hi Daniel, I have built a telecine around the Blackmagic 4K camera, the lighting I am using a triggered RGB LED light source designed by Frank Vine, it also has a trigger output for machine vision cameras like those mentioned earlier in the thread. The light source, controller and software can be had for under a grand, and has full control, highly recommended.

 

The tricky part for me is a phase-locked-loop controller for the motor to drive the film advance, as it has to be a closed loop system to keep it precisely at 24fps.


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#19 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 05:55 AM

I fear I'd have to reach for a microcontroller these days. You're presumably not rolling a PLL from scratch?


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#20 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 09:58 AM

http://www.galil.com/


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