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Sunny Outdoors: Decrease Shutter Speed Or Filter?


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#1 spineless

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 08:51 AM

I use a canon xm-2. When shooting outdoors, during a sunny day, I can eliminate the "burned picture" effect due to the sun, by using the on-camera ND filter, or by decreasing the shutter speed (from 1/50 to 1/1000 for example).
I noticed some visual differences and I would like to be enlightened some more on this subject. What are the visual and the aesthetic differences between these two practices?

Edited by spineless, 12 May 2005 - 08:54 AM.

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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 09:16 AM

Since changing the shutter speed affects motion in unnatural ways, using ND filters is the preferred way of dealing with too much light. Only change the shutter speed when you want to alter motion blur, like making water spraying from sprinkers look more crisp, to see every drop, or trying to get the "Gladiator" / "Saving Private Ryan" jerky / strobey motion affect.

At the other direction, if using a 24P camera, you can use exposure times longer than 1/48th carefully to gain more exposure but you will start to get unnatural motion blurring and smearing, especially with no shutter (1/24th of a second.)

With an interlaced-camera (50i or 60i), using no shutter (1/50th or 1/60th) is the norm.
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#3 L K Keerthi Basu

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 11:38 AM

Dear David,

I am going to shoot a music video next week. It is very hot here due to summer and my friends are advicing me not to shoot in this high temperature, because this hot temperature will lead to color miss match. Most of the shots are in exterior daylight. Is that true,what are the precautions to be taken while shooting. Iam awaiting for the reply.

L.K.Keerthibasu

Edited by l.k.keerthibasu, 12 May 2005 - 11:40 AM.

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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 11:47 AM

Dear David,

  I am going to shoot a music video next week. It is very hot here due to summer and my friends are advicing me not to shoot in this high temperature, because this hot temperature will lead to color miss match.  Most of the shots are in exterior daylight. Is that true,what are the  precautions to be taken while shooting. Iam awaiting for the reply.

  L.K.Keerthibasu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If you protect the film stock and camera from too much direct sun all day, I don't see why you'd have color shift problems due to heat. If you're talking about video, I haven't run into this problem myself (heat causing color changes.) I have had video cameras shut down in excessively humid and warm conditions.

Again, the safe thing is to try and keep the camera shaded with a flag.

Of course, there are other good reasons to not shoot in excessive heat!
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#5 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 01:02 PM

Dear David,

  I am going to shoot a music video next week. It is very hot here due to summer and my friends are advicing me not to shoot in this high temperature, because this hot temperature will lead to color miss match.  Most of the shots are in exterior daylight. Is that true,what are the  precautions to be taken while shooting. Iam awaiting for the reply.

  L.K.Keerthibasu

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Keep your film rolls out of direct sun that can heat the cans well above 40 Celsius. In general, any conditions that you are comfortable all day will be fine for the film --- you wouldn't stand in the summer sun in India without some protection from the heat or sunburn. A light colored insulated cooler chest offers good protection:

http://www.campingst...l100qtinco.html

http://www.landbigfi...se.cfm?PID=1842

http://www.branders....Bags-83045.html

If you refrigerate the film, you need to be careful to bring the rolls up to temperature to avoid moisture condensation, especially in a very humid environment.

After putting the exposed film back in taped cans, keep them cool and process them soon.

Here is Kodak information about film storage:

http://www.kodak.com...rage_cond.jhtml

http://www.kodak.com...b/tib5202.shtml
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#6 L K Keerthi Basu

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 11:26 AM

Dear David,

Iam shooting this Music Video in SVHS. We are having the problem like the images are all in total greenish but this is not happend before. we checked that whether there is a problem in the sensor but they are good in the interior. It is realy supprising to all of us.
Then we found that this only because of the heat. Is this happened before to any user here.

L.K.Keerthibasu.
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#7 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 01:04 PM

Dear David,

Iam shooting this Music Video in SVHS. We are having the problem like the images are all in total greenish but this is not happend before. we checked that whether there is a problem in the sensor but they are good in the interior. It is realy supprising to all of us.
Then we found that this only because of the heat. Is this happened before to any user here.

L.K.Keerthibasu.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Now if only you had used FILM! ;)

Videotape can have problems with very high humidity, and electronic circuits don't like it really hot. Perhaps a component in the color processing circuits is changing value with severe heating?

Are you using tape certified for SVHS? Does anything change when you record in VHS mode?
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#8 L K Keerthi Basu

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 12:08 PM

Now if only you had used FILM!  ;)

Videotape can have problems with very high humidity, and electronic circuits don't like it really hot.  Perhaps a component in the color processing circuits is changing value with severe heating?

Are you using tape certified for SVHS?  Does anything change when you record in VHS mode?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Dear John,

Sure Iam using only the certified SVHS tapes for recording.
Yes,only the electronic circuits are making the problem. We had found it and after that we have shooted only in the early morning and evening for the exteriors.
Thanks to all,

L.K.Keerthibasu
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#9 Jon Amerikaner

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Posted 15 May 2005 - 03:55 PM

I shot and edited for CBS news for three years so I constantly had to deal with this problem. As a journalist I would use the shutter all the time to get an acceptable depth of field. But it does affect movement. I think it is a little different than the effect you would get on film when using a shutter angle (what was used on Gladiator and Saving Private Ryan), but it's definitely noticeable with any kind of motion. Faster shutters tend to make movements skip as if they missed every other frame. If this displeases you, you would want to use ND filters to get the proper exposure. Unfortunately this doesn't really tackle the main issue which is the lack of latitude in video. It is difficult to get details in the highlights and shadows (at the same time without adding fill) of an image shot on a bright sunny day. You could experiment with some graduated NDs. But when shooting on a bright day with video part of the image is going to be too dark or too bright. It's up to you as a DP to decide which you would prefer and which is more important for your audience to see.
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