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Loading Krasnogorsk

16mm loading daylight film stock jam

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#1 Joshua Kerr_67420

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:32 AM

Hi all,

 

I have recently been trying to practice loading film into a super 16mm modified krasnogorsk k3 and am coming up against some odd problems.

 

Firstly I was not the one who performed the modification and the loop formers are removed. From what I understand this is to stop the film from getting scratched.

 

When loading the film and feeding it through everything seems to be fine at first and I run off a good few feet to make sure it is going through okay. But then once the lid goes on and I press the trigger the film immediately jams. Here is a video of the issue.

 

 

Can anyone make sense of this?

 

Regards,

Josh


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#2 John Salim

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 11:25 AM

First thing to try Josh, is run the loaded camera without the lid on - but keep pressed down the post just below the sprocket.

The door pushes down on this to 'open' and move the loop formers out the way.

Watch to see if anything strange happens.

 

If that feeds film ok without losing loops, the door must be touching the feed spool - or at least impeding it.

 

John S :)


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#3 Mark Dunn

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:04 PM

John, the OP said the loop formers have been removed. The plunger has been taken out as well.

You're losing both loops. Check the threading.

It looks as if you're having to push the door pretty hard- it should just drop into its groove, so check it's not catching somewhere, as John says.

BTW your bottom loop is a little long, it might rub on the post. As far as the bottom of the black slot is fine.


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#4 John Salim

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:20 PM

I saw the loop formers wern't there Mark but didn't quite notice the actual plunger was missing too !

....thanks for the correction. :huh:

 

Spool must be catching on the lid then..... I wonder if it's warped ?

 

John S


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#5 Mark Dunn

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:21 PM

The takeup spool did seem to be dragging on the film but as there was no audio it was hard to tell.

Looking closely, the bottom guide has certainly popped out, losing the loop, and the top one presumably has too. The guides should just overlap the lip of the sprocket.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 02 March 2015 - 12:25 PM.

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#6 Mark Dunn

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:30 PM

(Repost)

The takeup spool did seem to be dragging on the film but as there was no audio it was hard to tell.

Looking closely, the bottom guide isn't correctly set so the film is running off the teeth. It should just overlap the lip of the sprocket. I'd suspect the top one as well as both loops are lost.

However I've checked mine and the lid will shut with the guide open so it's a separate problem


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#7 Joshua Kerr_67420

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:43 PM

(Repost)

The takeup spool did seem to be dragging on the film but as there was no audio it was hard to tell.

Looking closely, the bottom guide isn't correctly set so the film is running off the teeth. It should just overlap the lip of the sprocket. I'd suspect the top one as well as both loops are lost.

However I've checked mine and the lid will shut with the guide open so it's a separate problem

Hi Mark,

 

Thank you for your post. Yes as you noticed the plunger has also been removed and doesn't seem to get in the way. I am trying to shorten my loops as per your suggestion. I am not 100% sure what you mean by 'the bottom guide is not correctly set' could you elaborate slightly so I understand how to make sure the film is properly engaged with the teeth.

 

 I think I will post another video of the film going through the camera at 8fps so you can get a more accurate look at what is happening.

 

The lid may be getting in the way but it is tough to see how.


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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:00 AM

In your vid the runner under the sprocket does not appear to have clicked into place.

Either way the loops have collapsed so jog the film back and forth to make sure the film is actually engaging in the teeth.

Is the lid hard to colse? It should just drop in.

Post a vid with sound because how the camera sounds can give clues.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 03 March 2015 - 05:05 AM.

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#9 Mark Dunn

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 05:21 AM

It is quite fiddly without the loop formers but if you cut the film through a sprocket hole you can still auto-feed at the top.


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#10 Joshua Kerr_67420

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:16 AM

Here are a couple of new videos getting a better look at what is happening when the film is fed through. The third one shows me placing the lid on without closing it and it continues to go through fine until I close it with the latch, then it jams.

 

Also just note I am using stock that has been run through the camera previously so you may see some damage to the sprocket holes as it runs through.

 

 

There is sound this time too :)


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#11 Mark Dunn

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 07:53 AM

The top loop has collapsed again so I wonder if the top runner is out of adjustment. The film is jumping the sprocket there

Does the latch inside the door look OK? It should be a flat rotating plate with the latch slot in the middle. I wonder if it could be catching on the runner althoug I don't see how that would affect the film run.

As John said, is the door warped? The only way I can replicate this fault is by immobilising the feed spool. There is a collar on the lid which covers the spindle when the lid is on. Could it be catching?


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#12 John Salim

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:02 AM

Is the door loose Josh ?

 

I remember my K3 door moved about and although it was light-tight and didn't cause the problems you're having, I added some *black cord light trapping in the door groove to make it nice and tight.

 

By doing this you'll raise and move the door away from the body a little and this just might fix it !

 

 

* all I used was some cord blackened with a felt tip pen and carefully glued in the channel.

 

John S :unsure:


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#13 Joshua Kerr_67420

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 09:10 AM

Is the door loose Josh ?

 

I remember my K3 door moved about and although it was light-tight and didn't cause the problems you're having, I added some *black cord light trapping in the door groove to make it nice and tight.

 

By doing this you'll raise and move the door away from the body a little and this just might fix it !

 

 

* all I used was some cord blackened with a felt tip pen and carefully glued in the channel.

 

John S :unsure:

Thanks for that John,

 

I assume the door still locked fine after being raised slightly?


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#14 Joshua Kerr_67420

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:57 AM

Interestingly the door is warped as you suggested. When turning the lock it pulls the door into place. Not sure how I can fix this.

 


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#15 Mark Dunn

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 11:02 AM

I think you will need a bit of help from a light engineering works. A well-equipped garage might be able to handle it. I don't know if it's a matter of machining or bending.

You could try removing that collar I mentioned but with the door warped I'd be worried about the light trap anyway as John suggests. Mine certainly doesn't have a gap like that when locked.


Edited by Mark Dunn, 03 March 2015 - 11:03 AM.

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#16 John Salim

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 11:52 AM

Thanks for that John,

 

I assume the door still locked fine after being raised slightly?

 

Yes, absolutely just right Josh .... as it should be.
 

John S


Edited by John Salim, 03 March 2015 - 11:53 AM.

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