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Sunset lighting


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#1 Mihnea Snooker

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 05:14 PM

Hi! Im was wondering how to achieve this look? Ok, HMI with full cto outside, but what about fill? In the second frame i think there is a daylight balanced (or somewhere near) source over the window but what about the other sources?

Thanks!

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#2 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 05:44 PM

Looks like there is a cooler, soft toplight. This could be a lamp bounced off the ceiling or a bounce board, or a soft push through a frame if it's a set, and has no ceilings.


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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 05:45 PM

Depends on the look you want since sunsets can very warm near the end depending on the air quality...

 

I generally go for, let's say, a 3200K sunlight effect and soft 5600K fill (daylight Kinos are good for this) to create the warm sun / cool shadows effect.  Now whether you do that with the camera set to daylight and use a big tungsten source for the setting sun, versus gelling an HMI, is up to you -- I tend to use a tungsten unit in case I want to point the camera towards the fixture and don't want to see a gel frame.

 

You would think having the fill be at 5600K would be too big a difference but it partially depends on how much the warm sun is bouncing into the shadows as well, taking some of the blueness out of them.  Same goes for the sun, some might think 3200K is too warm but it depends partially on how overexposed it is and whether it is a backlight or a front-light, you can get away with more orange in a backlight and overexposure causes it to look less saturated.

 

For example, I lit this shot with a 12K tungsten sun effect, spotted in a bit and overexposed, with a weak fill from a daylight Kino:

90M13.jpg


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#4 Stuart Allman

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:18 PM

David,

 

It's funny that you mention using a 3200K source.  I recently received a demo unit of the C-700 spectrometer and measured 6pm sun coming through my window.  It measured almost exactly 3200K.  Then I went outside and measured the overhead sky fill and it came out somewhere around 11000K, but that might look too blue to be realistic on camera - dunno, haven't tried it yet.

 

Fun toy, but unfortunately I have to give it back at NAB. ;(

 

Stuart

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#5 John E Clark

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:52 PM

David,

 

It's funny that you mention using a 3200K source.  I recently received a demo unit of the C-700 spectrometer and measured 6pm sun coming through my window.  It measured almost exactly 3200K.  Then I went outside and measured the overhead sky fill and it came out somewhere around 11000K, but that might look too blue to be realistic on camera - dunno, haven't tried it yet.

 

Fun toy, but unfortunately I have to give it back at NAB. ;(

 

Stuart

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Well, I don't have $1600 or so to spend... but I did find in a quick search that one rental service is offering the meter for $98 for 4 days rental. Since I'm interested in 'non pro' DIY lights, I could see renting for 4 days, and testing as many lights as I can, and capturing the spectra for 'pondering' later.


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#6 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:53 PM

  Then I went outside and measured the overhead sky fill and it came out somewhere around 11000K, but that might look too blue to be realistic on camera - dunno, haven't tried it yet.

We perceive differences in CT less as the CT gets higher. The 1100 degrees Kelvin between 3200k and 4300k is far more noticeable than the difference between 5600k and 6700k. After a certain point, blue is blue.


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#7 Stuart Allman

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Posted 01 April 2015 - 11:08 PM

John,

 

Not to hijack the thread, but I run the blog for Video Gear here in San Diego.  This weekend we're going to produce a tutorial video showing the color spectrum and color rendering of each class of light we have in the shop.  I'm hoping the video gets released before NAB, but the marketing folks want to add their marketing "stuff" to the head and tail.  So hopefully that will give you some useful information for comparison.  When it's available you can view the video at video-gear.com/blog

 

I also put a mini review on my personal blog at...

illuma.blogspot.com/2015/03/review-of-sekonic-c-700-spectrometer.html

The first picture shows the spectrum of the late day sunlight.

 

Stuart

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#8 Mihnea Snooker

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:46 AM

Thanks a lot for answers!

 

 

For example, I lit this shot with a 12K tungsten sun effect, spotted in a bit and overexposed, with a weak fill from a daylight Kino:

Where was placed that kino? Did you use any diffusion or its just the softness of kinos?


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#9 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 01:51 AM

I think I had 216 on the outside doors of a 4-bank Kino but it was upstage as a 3/4 key, as you can tell by the nose shadow.


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#10 Mihnea Snooker

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 02:04 AM

Thank you very much!


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#11 Mihnea Snooker

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:18 AM

I assume it's something similar here, isn't? http://www.davidmull...s/web-ust13.jpg


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#12 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 11:24 AM

That was on a stage where we were balanced more for tungsten, so in this case I put 1/2 CTO gel on the backlights, I think it was a 10K through the window and a Source-4 Leko on her hair, both with 1/2 CTO, and then the key was white or maybe had 1/4 CTB -- I don't think it was a Kino, I think I put a Chimera light through a 4x4 diffusion frame.


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#13 Mihnea Snooker

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 03:44 PM

Thank you very much again!


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#14 Albion Hockney

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 04:26 PM

Yea...generally just fill with cooler light. I think fill should be an after thought though.  My approach to situations where you want direct sunlight through windows is that you need to first put up the sun....IE get the biggest damn light you can as far away as you can and pound it through the windows at the angle you want. Generally after doing that you find some nice things happening that maybe you didn't predict (IE specular reflections, the light bouncing off a hardwood floor and producing a nice fill light...all sorts of stuff) from there I just work it to make sure the camera is doing ok....IE balance the exposure so the bright sunlight isn't too hot and the shadows arn't too far gone. 

 

 

Sometimes in sunny rooms fill light is not cool btw....it comes from bouncing off w/e is in the room so it can look good to go warm on the fill too. I have done scenes with sunlight bouncing off a floor/table acts as a key light for example. 


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#15 John E Clark

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:02 PM

Is using 'blueish' light for the fill one of those 'color contrast' things, against the yellow sun, not that the blue is all that obvious...


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#16 Albion Hockney

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:39 PM

I think it's two fold. The idea of using blue for fill in daylight situations comes from the color of ambient skylight which is of course our blue sky.

 

theoretically if you in an open space where the sun isn't bouncing off the ground too much shadows are going be pretty blue. That said that condition only happens sometimes. 

 

 

the color contrast is a nice perk though. 


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#17 Kemalettin Sert

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:01 PM

this is shot by mighty Chris Probst.

http://www.reduser.n...morphic-MX-Reds


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#18 Kemalettin Sert

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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:07 PM

about sunset scene he comments

The lights outside the windows we just plain 'ol tungsten Pars... Just selectively blasting at camera...

 


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