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No-pay crew work


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#1 JD Hartman

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 09:43 AM

Maybe O.T., maybe a rant....

 

Where do "people" get off posting crap like this?  From Mandy dot com, "No pay, but IMDB credits will be given.  Meals will be covered.".

 

Sometimes you're not busy and might be inclined to help someone out on a project that sounds interesting, make some connections, etc., but.........

 

Is an IMDB credit costing the Producer/Screen Writer/Production company real money?  They stand to benefit the most from the IMDB entry.  It's almost as if that compensates me for my time and my equipment. 

 

Meals better not be pizza or KFC.


Edited by JD Hartman, 07 April 2015 - 09:44 AM.

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#2 Richard Boddington

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 10:15 AM

Meals better not be pizza or KFC.

 

I love both, especially KFC, where do I sign up?

 

R,


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#3 JD Hartman

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 10:56 AM

That's not helping.....

 

Seriously, some of the jobs on Mandy are film students and we're not talking community college, it's NYU, Columbia, etc.  25k-35k a year tuition (more?) and you claim you can't pay for experienced crew? 


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#4 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 11:21 AM

Its about double that per year, for what it's worth. 


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#5 JD Hartman

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 12:13 PM

Its about double that per year, for what it's worth. 

 

Makes the "no pay for experienced crew" even more absurd.


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#6 Richard Boddington

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 04:07 PM

Well...the film business is hugely oversubscribed.  There are well over 200 people wanting every job.  I know a producer who made an entire feature with 100% volunteer labour, he had zero issues finding a crew.  Some Europeans even flew over at their own expense with their own gear, and donated all their time and equipment.

 

Now what did he do wrong?  If people want to give their labour away for free there is no law that I know of that would stop them.

 

If you don't want to sign up for a film with no pay, being advertised on Mandy, then don't. No one is forcing you to, are they?

 

R,


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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 04:25 PM

I would think paying for an expensive school would just as well be a reason to not have money leftover to make films...
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#8 Richard Boddington

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 04:40 PM

But, but, David these rich kids can just ask daddy for more money so that the crew won't have to eat crap food like *gasp* pizza.  Instead they can have steak and lobster served on set by their personal butler.

 

Quite frankly JD Hartman I take exception to your comment, "Meals better not be pizza or KFC."  You are displaying all the characteristics of a spoiled brat film crew worker.  I have to listen to complaints like this from people like you on every shoot.

 

Here's a news flash.....that food you are stuffing your face with on set, YOU GOT THAT FOR FREE!!! So quit your moaning!

 

I worked for a TV network for 5 years, total number of times I got a free lunch? ZERO!

 

In the real world, people have to pay for their own lunches, gee go figure.

 

Next thing you know companies will start expecting people to commute to work for two hours each way and not compensate them for their travel expenses.  Oh wait....that's how it is for everyone outside of film, silly me.

 

R,


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#9 JD Hartman

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 04:49 PM

Well...the film business is hugely oversubscribed.  There are well over 200 people wanting every job.  I know a producer who made an entire feature with 100% volunteer labour, he had zero issues finding a crew.  Some Europeans even flew over at their own expense with their own gear, and donated all their time and equipment.

 

Now what did he do wrong?  If people want to give their labour away for free there is no law that I know of that would stop them.

 

If you don't want to sign up for a film with no pay, being advertised on Mandy, then don't. No one is forcing you to, are they?

 

R,

 

You're right, no gun to my head.

 

But, but, David these rich kids can just ask daddy for more money so that the crew won't have to eat crap food like *gasp* pizza.  Instead they can have steak and lobster served on set by their personal butler.

 

Quite frankly JD Hartman I take exception to your comment, "Meals better not be pizza or KFC."  You are displaying all the characteristics of a spoiled brat film crew worker.  I have to listen to complaints like this from people like you on every shoot.

 

Here's a news flash.....that food you are stuffing your face with on set, YOU GOT THAT FOR FREE!!! So quit your moaning!

 

I worked for a TV network for 5 years, total number of times I got a free lunch? ZERO!

 

In the real world, people have to pay for their own lunches, gee go figure.

 

Next thing you know companies will start expecting people to commute to work for two hours each way and not compensate them for their travel expenses.  Oh wait....that's how it is for everyone outside of film, silly me.

 

R,

 

Sorry that you seem to be so ticked off by this, but I don't think that it's unreasonable for a crew to expect one decent meal, not garbage nutrition like pizza, in a 12 to 15 hour workday.


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#10 Michael LaVoie

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 05:55 PM

I'd donate my time free on a movie if it was for a filmmaker or producer who could return the favor somehow.  For example, if the director was an experienced sound recordist and agreed to do sound on my film for an equal length of time pro-bono.  

 

Or even if they were a script supervisor, an A.D. or anything in the business professionally where they had a tradeable skill set that was worth dollars per day in savings that they could offer in return.

 

That sadly is NEVER the case.  The director seeking free labor typically has no technical skill set they could possibly offer in return.  Making it even crazier that they expect anyone to work for free.

 

But I do believe in helping out on occasion and working for the sake of being creative.  It's just that I do think it should be a two way street and not one person leveraging the desperation of everyone around them.   


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#11 jay obertone

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 12:32 AM

I take no issue with those asking for free work. Some of my favorite jobs I was unfortunately working for free. (they were exceptions though) I have owned and operated a number of businesses and one counter intuitive fact I have learned is people don't really work hardest for money.  When it comes down to it there are more powerful motivators.

 

Low budget indies and pizza/junk food are synonymous, I really appreciate good food, but got to choose ones battles. If I am working low budget I usually come with a brown bag lunch like a badass, and focus on the work. This all said In my experience if you cant raise a few thousand dollars (as a producer/director) for an art film/short film/experimental film/etc than you probably cant make a movie.. Lots of content these days, not a ton of quality, certainly not more than yesteryear. Making a film is difficult. Working any job and saving a few grand to pay a crew is easy. SO... I dont work for free, not because of the money or food.. Because 9 out of 10 it will be uncommitted people doing marginal uninspiring derivative junk and will urk you every time you see the imdb reminder. However if I choose to show up for free I will work my butt off without complaints!

So JD I feel your pain, but don't let it get to you!


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#12 aapo lettinen

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 01:39 AM

Is an IMDB credit costing the Producer/Screen Writer/Production company real money?  They stand to benefit the most from the IMDB entry.  It's almost as if that compensates me for my time and my equipment. 

it does not cost anything if you don't want to add poster or other additional. I don't know if production photos cost something.

 

I have made a few imdb entries for short films I've been involved with, the main deal is that it takes quite a few hours to enter the info because the imdb is absolutely horrible in this regard, very time consuming to make changes because the pages are so old and difficult to use.

 

Some people have even added their home videos to there, not even "short films" quality wise :P


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#13 aapo lettinen

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 02:02 AM

donating free work and donating equipment are two different things. You should always charge for the equipment. (unless they give you Executive Producer credit for saving maybe thousands of dollars of their money and you are OK for that).  The sad truth is, most indie producers and directors seem to be mostly interested about the equipment you could bring to the production and not really about your creativity and skills. Even if you haven't shot anything in your entire life you could easily get the job because you can bring them Red camera for free. 

I think this is very degrading and insulting for a creative person who should always be hired because of their skills only. 

 

I, for example, could not get almost any indie dp free "work" because I only own GH4 and 16mm and 35mm cameras. Most of the indie guys here want to shoot at least with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera because it has "Cinema" in its name so it MUST make the production shine  :lol:     Renting lighting gear, camera equipment or using real film is also no-no because it would cost them something. If I would pay all the lighting gear they maybe would allow me to bring it to the set, who knows :P 

 

Luckily I don't have time to shoot their productions anymore because of real work so I don't have to worry about these thing anymore and toss 10k to an URSA package only to get allowed to the set for free  :D


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