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Digital Super 8 Cartridge

Digital Super-8 cartridge Super 8

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#1 Patrick Steemers

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 10:31 AM

Development of the Digital Super 8 Cartridge. Using a subminiature 15 x 15mm USB camera board, 3D printed Super 8 cartridge and an Intel based Dev Board. Bring your old S8 camera back to life by a digital hack.
Comments welcome!

http://www.ximea.com...ilm-cameras-96/
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#2 Jose luis villar

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 03:29 PM

My interest in the super 8 is the  real film texture, to make a bad imitation prefer my smaller Iphone.


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#3 Philip Kral

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 04:16 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't someone already try this? I vaguely remember a nofilmschool article and even a failed kickstarter attempt. Kudos on getting a working prototype though.


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#4 Josh Gladstone

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 08:18 PM

http://nofilmschool....eras-go-digital

 

I don't think it ever went beyond concept because, honestly, what's the point?


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#5 christophernigel

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 08:01 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't someone already try this? I vaguely remember a nofilmschool article and even a failed kickstarter attempt. Kudos on getting a working prototype though.

 

May be they think it's cool/ and Hip , to carry around there grandfather's camera . then call it film making .


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#6 Glenn Brady

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 11:52 AM

I think the device might be useful for rehearsing shots.  It may not be as handy as a video assist, but very few Super 8 cameras have that (Beaulieu had a prototype or very limited production run many years ago and there are a variety of home-made assists).     


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#7 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 04:07 PM

There have been so many ideas around this concept.

Some as a study in design others as a serious thought.

 

At Euro 1000 per piece this not going to happen.

 

As the idea now seems to be that the S8 camera must run with the cartridge door open for the wires to connect to the contacts one might just as well attempt to create an adapter which will allow a smartphone camera to film the image of the Super-8 camera.

It needs a groundglass to project the image on or possibly a block of fibreoptics. Possibly with a 45 degree positioned surface-mirror Then likely the camera will need a close-up lens to focus on the projected image. And of course there must be a holder for the smartphone.  The camera needs to film when the camera is running and it needs sync pulses from the camera to find the frames of interest. A software package needs to be developed. Any takers :)


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#8 Patrick Steemers

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 01:54 AM

Hi Andries, great thoughts tx! Linking the cartridge with the external module is foreseen by adapting the viewing glass used for seeing the type of film. Most cameras have this on the standard location. By taking out the piece of plastic you created a hole through which the connection is possible via mini USB.

By placing the sendor at the focal plane the best image quality is achieved. Like your idea about using a smart phone but it will be hard to synchronise trigger it's camera. The expensive part of the prototype is the small size camera and sensor which are however perfect given the limitations of the super 8 dimensions.

Once an improved prototype is ready we might try a kickstart initiative to get funding and first orders to drive scale and drive down cost. Also may use cheaper electronics such as Beaglebone Black.
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#9 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 02:27 AM

The focal plane is very thin. It will be very difficult and likely impossible to extend the bare sensor out so much from the pressure plate of your new cartridge that it can be in the focal plane and still be connected to the electronics.  You might want to study things a bit by studying the parts of a disassembled cartridge a bit. Glue a piece of film to the pressure plate. Hold the plate against the camera gate and then think things through how to get your digital camera and its sensor at that place.


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#10 Patrick Steemers

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 02:49 AM

This is indeed one of the challenges. Solution for now is to adapt the S8 camera by simply removing the film gate which usually has 2 simple screws. It's a compromise but if one wants to pimp one's camera and be able to film hours of digital super 8 it's a simple intervention that can also be reversed.
This solution has proven to work so far.
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#11 rob spence

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 04:43 AM

For what it's worth...the reason an Aaton 16mm digital magazine was never developed was because the Aaton mag 'throat' is too narrow to accomodate an 'off the shelf' chip.

A special chip would have to be developed to fit ...all chips are made mounted to circuit boards and its this extra width that limits mounting options...I think things have moved on now and nobody would be willing to re-develop such a chip due to the massive costs involved.

Not sure if that helps you...


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#12 Patrick Steemers

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 08:06 AM

This is the component we are using at the moment the Ximea mu9PM-MBRD. Has 15x15 dimension. And fits.
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#13 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 08:12 AM

These smartphone camera chips are only 6mm x 6mm to 10mm x 10mm in size. No problem fitting inside a super-8 cartridge.
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#14 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 08:12 AM

For what it's worth...the reason an Aaton 16mm digital magazine was never developed was because the Aaton mag 'throat' is too narrow to accomodate an 'off the shelf' chip.

A special chip would have to be developed to fit ...all chips are made mounted to circuit boards and its this extra width that limits mounting options...I think things have moved on now and nobody would be willing to re-develop such a chip due to the massive costs involved.

Not sure if that helps you...

I never knew that about the Aaton system. I wonder how P+S Technik made the SR digital mag? Maybe it's because it doesn't have a slide-in magazine throat and they had more room? I wish that thing could be updated. I would love a spinning-mirror "16mm" digital camera. 


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#15 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:53 AM

you had to remove the gate for the P+S if memory serves. I almost bought one for my SR3.. almost..


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#16 Patrick Steemers

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:35 PM

These smartphone camera chips are only 6mm x 6mm to 10mm x 10mm in size. No problem fitting inside a super-8 cartridge.


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#17 Patrick Steemers

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:37 PM

Smartphone camera sensors have too small active pixel area to capture the 5.7 x 4.2 super 8 image
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#18 christophernigel

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 01:39 PM

Development of the Digital Super 8 Cartridge. Using a subminiature 15 x 15mm USB camera board, 3D printed Super 8 cartridge and an Intel based Dev Board. Bring your old S8 camera back to life by a digital hack.
Comments welcome!

http://www.ximea.com...ilm-cameras-96/

Well if you shoot film you are using the camera for what it's made for . that means it's alive and well ?


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#19 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 03:46 PM

Thus the camera is wrecked for the purpose of putting the Euro 1000 adapter in? Or are people supposed to unmount and mount the gate assembly from the camera?

 

Don't forget about the end-film-feeler and the claw going up and down.

 

And how are you going to adjust for different camera designs? The gates aren't the same on different models and brands.

 

How are you going to put a grain sensation in the prime recording. Postprocessing is not authentic enough. People could then just as well shoot using a Euro 400 DSLR and crop 3:4 with some postprocess grainy look.


Edited by Andries Molenaar, 29 April 2015 - 03:48 PM.

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#20 Lasse Roedtnes

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Posted 04 May 2015 - 11:33 AM

Hi Patrick,

 

I see on the forum you mention that the resolution is VGA (640x480) and that the frame rate is 18fps.

 

Excuse me for stating the obvious but why would people want to record such a low frame rate and resolution? 

You do not get Super-8 look just because you shot through a shutter and a lens, it comes from the film itself.

Also when talking digital any video camera or photo camera can today shoot video in much higher resolution also with same lens mounts or through adapters the only thing missing is the shutter but that's not needed for this purpose to be frank.

 

Believe me when I say that I applaud your efforts however I think you'll find a bigger market in making a video assist system for existing Super-8 cameras than trying to replace the film it-self because people has a Super-8 camera for a reason and in 99% of all cases the reason is not that it's just collecting dust in a corner but rather being used.

 

Best regards

Lasse 


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