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Master Anamorphic Lens Help!

anamorphic arri 1st ac focus pulling

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#1 Jacqueline

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 11:06 AM

Hello!

 

I am seeking advice on how to best prepare for an upcoming shoot where I'll be focus pulling with the ARRI Master Anamorphic Lenses (35mm, 50mm & 75mm). This is my first time focus pulling with these lenses, and anamorphic lenses all together and I want to make sure I am fully prepared to do my job right. I am still relatively new to focus pulling (less than 2 years experience) and would greatly appreciate some advice to help me through this shoot. I have been reading the forums about anamorphic lenses but I have yet to find specific info on the Master Anamorphics. My questions are:

 

1) How do I measure focus when there is an arc in the focus plane. I read that if a subject is 6ft away and the lens is set to 6ft, then the subject will be soft. Is there an equation for calculating the distance from the lens plane, to the subject while taking the arc of the anamorphic lens into account?

 

2) Does the iPhone app PCam help camera assistants with these sorts of calculations? (If so, looks like I will finally be buying that app!)

 

3) When shooting at T1.9, do these lenses breath in a distracting way? Meaning if I'm racking focus at T1.9 and I happen to miss a mark, will it be extremely obvious because of the breathing effect? 

 

4) We will be shooting in the middle of the desert during the day & night, so does anyone have any tips in regards to the difference in pulling focus wide open vs. fully closed down on these lenses?

 

I am still not 100% sure if I am asking the correct questions and ALL of the questions that I need answered in order to be prepared. But I would really appreciate any advice that you can offer to a camera kid just starting out in the business. Merci beaucoup!  :D


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#2 Miguel Angel

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Posted 28 April 2015 - 04:28 PM

Hello Jacqueline, 

 

Welcome to the forum! 

 

Master anamorphics are a great piece of machinery. 

 

1) I have not encountered any problems when working with them in digital or film. 6ft is 6ft, however it is true that when working with film you have a little bit more of security (or insecurity :)) because the film moves some mm's back and forth and that gives you a little bit more of depth. 

 

2) I have not used them at 1.9 but at T2.8 / 4 and no breathing. I hope there is no breathing effect at T1.9 or I would be very disappointed with them! 

 

Shooting in the middle of the dessert sound like fun! :) Bring suncream! :) 

Have a good day! 


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#3 Jacqueline

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:33 AM

Thank you very much for your reply! The rental house gave our Master Anamorphics to another shoot, so now I have to research Cooke S2s! Wish me luck!


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#4 Gregory Irwin

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:52 AM

Uh oh.  That rental house wasn't Otto's was it?  I begin a camera prep there with those MP Anamorphics next week.  I'm guessing that the probability is high since there are not that many sets out there yet.  It'll be my first time with those lenses as well...

 

G


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#5 Jacqueline

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 10:58 AM

It was actually Radiant Images. They just gave away the lens set without any real apologies, but Old School Camera hooked us up with the camera and lens package very last minute which saved us!


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#6 Gregory Irwin

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 11:00 AM

It was actually Radiant Images. They just gave away the lens set without any real apologies, but Old School Camera hooked us up with the camera and lens package very last minute which saved us!

Whew!!  I was feeling really bad for a moment.  I do know Keslow has four sets of MP Anamorphics as well...  Good luck!

 

G


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#7 Miguel Angel

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 11:49 AM

Oh! I'm sorry to hear that you won't have the master anamorphic!

 

On the other hand the Cooke S2 have a very distinctive look, I love them a lot. 

You won't find any problems with the Cooke S2 as they are normal spherical lenses. 

 

The only thing I can think of is that depending on the rehousing (I can think about two Cooke sets that I have used..) sometimes the distances don't match the focus ring so test them thoroughly! other than that they are very sweet and normal. 

 

Mr. Irwin, I look forward to hear your thoughts about the Master Anamorphic (and their lack of anamorphic look :D). Do you mind if I ask if you will be using the new attachments? 

 

Have a good day! 


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#8 Gregory Irwin

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:08 PM

 

Mr. Irwin, I look forward to hear your thoughts about the Master Anamorphic (and their lack of anamorphic look :D). Do you mind if I ask if you will be using the new attachments? 

 

 

 

Please... it's Greg.  I seriously doubt we will but who knows?  I have eight weeks to prep the lenses and cameras to be camera ready for a late June start.  All sorts of stuff may develop during that time!!!  After seeing our initial tests with them, when compared to the Panavision anamorphic lenses, they are a bit anticeptic.

 

 The beauty of the anamorphic format is the fact that anamorphic lenses are flawed.  Having said that, there is a limit to how flawed one can accept.  We tested the Hawk V-Lites and they were a disaster with internal reflections from specular light sources.  The picture looked like a hundred UFOs were countering across the screen while car headlights passed through the frame!! And not in a good way!!!

 

G


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#9 Freya Black

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 12:46 PM

Thank you very much for your reply! The rental house gave our Master Anamorphics to another shoot, so now I have to research Cooke S2s! Wish me luck!

 

Cooke Series 2! Sounds like they did you a favour!

The Master Anamorphics aren't like vintage anamorphic lenses. They have a different and more modern look. They are kind of their own thing but very modern while looking a bit different. The Cooke lenses will not only give you a more vintage look but also the Cooke look that many people love (including me!).

 

Good luck with the shoot! :)

 

Freya


Edited by Freya Black, 01 May 2015 - 12:47 PM.

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#10 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 01:09 PM

 

the film moves some mm's back and forth and that gives you a little bit more of depth. 

Not quite sure what you mean here, Miguel.


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#11 Miguel Angel

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 01:34 PM

Greg, 8 weeks to prep! that's amazing! I forgot the last time I had more than 2 weeks to prepare something :'(.

 

It is interesting what you say about the Hawk Lites, they were the favourite lenses of many dp's in Spain when they first came up.

I did not like the way they flared because of what you said though. 

 

Regarding the Master Anamorphic, I feel the same, I'm sure the VFX department of any movie shot on them will be really happy because of that perfection tho. 

 

Stuart

Probably it is because of my English. 

Or maybe I'm wrong, in that case, the correction will be more than welcomed :)

 

What I meant was (let me see if I can explain it properly) that when shooting on film the film has a bit of movement when it moves through the gate and that movement when shooting wide open is more forgiving or not? if something is out of focus or focused?

 

I worked on a movie (shot on film) where we were shooting wide open and in the extreme close ups sometimes the same shoot was focused and out of focus within seconds (no movement of the person, no movement of the camera).

We asked to the lab and they told us that the movement of the film through the gate was the cause of that. 

 

Probably you can explain it much better :) 

 

Have a good day! 


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#12 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 03:33 PM

Miguel,

 

Depth of Focus is usually measured in hundredths of a millimeter. The gate and pressure plate on a film camera are very precisely machined in order to remain within tight tolerances and keep any variations in back focus distance imperceptible. The fact that you were able to see the image going in and out of focus would suggest a fault with the camera's pressure plate. In any event, this wouldn't affect the Depth of Field in front of the lens.

 

Jaqueline,

 

The curved plane of focus on anamorphic lenses is one reason why traditionally DPs use a deeper stop, like f4 or 5.6,  so that DoF covers the curved plane.


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#13 Gregory Irwin

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 03:39 PM

 

I worked on a movie (shot on film) where we were shooting wide open and in the extreme close ups sometimes the same shoot was focused and out of focus within seconds (no movement of the person, no movement of the camera).

We asked to the lab and they told us that the movement of the film through the gate was the cause of that. 

 

Probably you can explain it much better :)

 

Have a good day! 

What I believe you are saying Miguel is when the "gap" (the measured distance between the gate and the pressure pad) is too great, the film has the ability to fluxuate to and fro during the moment of exposure.  That's not good!!!  The end result is in and out of focus since the film negative is not registering perfectly in place as it needs to.  

 

We refer to this as a "depth of focus" issue rather than a "depth of field" issue.  In order to achieve focus with a properly collimated lens, the film must be locked in tight at a particular, prescribed distance away from the rear element of the lens at the moment of exposure.  If that distance is changing, the depth of focus (behind the lens) is affected in a very adverse way.

 

I hope I didn't confuse the situation...

 

G


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#14 Gregory Irwin

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 03:42 PM

Miguel,

 

Depth of Focus is usually measured in hundredths of a millimeter. The gate and pressure plate on a film camera are very precisely machined in order to remain within tight tolerances and keep any variations in back focus distance imperceptible. The fact that you were able to see the image going in and out of focus would suggest a fault with the camera's pressure plate. In any event, this wouldn't affect the Depth of Field in front of the lens.

 

Jaqueline,

 

The curved plane of focus on anamorphic lenses is one reason why traditionally DPs use a deeper stop, like f4 or 5.6,  so that DoF covers the curved plane.

 

Ha! I second everything Stuart just posted.


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#15 Miguel Angel

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 03:52 PM

"Gap" that's the word I was looking for!

And thank ye for the corrections! :) 

 

Have a good day!!


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#16 Dan Finlayson

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Posted 01 May 2015 - 05:05 PM

The main reason film is more forgiving on critical focus is not the potential for the film to be transported at slightly different depths, but the face that color film has multiple dye layers.  Each focuses at a slightly different depth.  This gives a nice natural roll-off of focus


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