Jump to content


Photo

effects of pola


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 siddharth diwan

siddharth diwan
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 16 May 2005 - 04:04 AM

if i used a polarizer for indoor shoots what effect wud i get and wat abt a black promist
  • 0

#2 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 16 May 2005 - 05:20 AM

The only use I know for a pola indoors is to reduce reflections on windows. But you have to mind that polarization depending on camera angles, yuo can't always have the same effects according to the different shots you plan to do...

bacically, BPM is to reduce contrast by ligthening up the shadows.

Have a look with the search engine in these forums, these questions can find interesting answers in many other former threads.
  • 0

#3 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 16 May 2005 - 10:33 AM

Most people wouldn't use polas indoors unless they had a specific glare or reflection problem to solve, and in that case, they better have lit for the stop & a half light loss in mind.

Otherwise, the only movie I've heard of that used polas for everything was "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow", which was all shot in front of chromakey screens anyway. The idea was that the Pola reduced some of the clipping in HD from edge lights by taking some of the sheen & kick out. You can risk getting a "dull" look to skintones if you're not careful.

I wouldn't necessarily say that BLACK ProMists are for contrast reduction, although the heavier ones do milk-up the image a little. LowCons, UltraCons, Fogs, Double Fogs, regular ProMists, etc. all do a better job of reducing contrast.

Black ProMists are regular ProMist with black specs added to RESTORE some contrast lost by the halation-causing mist particles in the regular ProMist. Even so, at the heavier strengths, you still lose some contrast but the idea behind the filter design was to get the ProMist look without the loss of contrast.

Black ProMist is a type of diffusion filter that softens detail and causes halation (glowing) around bright areas of the frame, bleeding into dark areas. The mist particles and the black particles all add a somewhat "gritty" noise-like texture that some people think looks like grain and makes video look more like film. I'm not sure I buy that. If you stop down too far in video, the filter particles come into focus more and it looks like your lens is dusty, so shoot at wide apertures.
  • 0

#4 Kevin Zanit

Kevin Zanit
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1223 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • LA

Posted 16 May 2005 - 12:31 PM

I use Polas indoors a lot, especially in video.

It helps me control things that are in an "edge" position. Also, you would be surprised how much control they give you over sheens on walls, floors, tables, etc, etc. You can just dial the intensity you want in.

My primary use though is with black skin. I like to have the makeup person build up the reflectance in black skin, and then with a POLA I can dial in how bright I want that reflectance. Also, somehow it helps you dial in and out certain color casts produced by different black skin. For example, there tends to be two extremes in dark skin: Skin that goes very blue, and skin that is very orange. With the POLA you can sometimes dial out the blue or orange. I don't know why this works, but it does (I will try and post some before and after pictures).

As David said, you just have to be careful to give faces a dull look.

Kevin Zanit
  • 0

#5 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 16 May 2005 - 12:36 PM

For example, there tends to be two extremes in dark skin: Skin that goes very blue, and skin that is very orange. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Funny I've always found myself they were tending to go green/magenta :)

Very interesting anyway...
  • 0

#6 siddharth diwan

siddharth diwan
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 16 May 2005 - 03:04 PM

Most people wouldn't use polas indoors unless they had a specific glare or reflection problem to solve, and in that case, they better have lit for the stop & a half light loss in mind.

Otherwise, the only movie I've heard of that used polas for everything was "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow", which was all shot in front of chromakey screens anyway. The idea was that the Pola reduced some of the clipping in HD from edge lights by taking some of the sheen & kick out.  You can risk getting a "dull" look to skintones if you're not careful.

I wouldn't necessarily say that BLACK ProMists are for contrast reduction, although the heavier ones do milk-up the image a little. LowCons, UltraCons, Fogs, Double Fogs, regular ProMists, etc. all do a better job of reducing contrast.

Black ProMists are regular ProMist with black specs added to RESTORE some contrast lost by the halation-causing mist particles in the regular ProMist.  Even so, at the heavier strengths, you still lose some contrast but the idea behind the filter design was to get the ProMist look without the loss of contrast.

Black ProMist is a type of diffusion filter that softens detail and causes halation (glowing) around bright areas of the frame, bleeding into dark areas.  The mist particles and the black particles all add a somewhat "gritty" noise-like texture that some people think looks like grain and makes video look more like film. I'm not sure I buy that. If you stop down too far in video, the filter particles come into focus more and it looks like your lens is dusty, so shoot at wide apertures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



the main idea is to shoot in a lift wud dese filters help me in achieving a different look plz help me with that and also how can i achieve high contrast with the grains to get that film look
thanks a lot
  • 0

#7 Laurent Andrieux

Laurent Andrieux
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1527 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • France

Posted 16 May 2005 - 03:23 PM

Look, it sounds like you are a newbie in cinematography. Why the hell do you want to bother yourself with a pola in a lift cabin ???

I would understand if you wanted to use it for some peculiar effect you were looking for but it really doens't seem to be so...

if you're thinking of something precisely why to do so, please tell us more about that so we can understand...

And for what's about the film look, I'm pretty sure you should have a look in these forums via the search engine, it's been discussed many times.

(Sorry I was a bit too quick when answered about BPM, hopefully David corrected - diffusion for sure, effectivly, black particles reducing contrast less than white ones)
  • 0

#8 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 16 May 2005 - 08:13 PM

the main idea is to shoot in a lift wud dese filters help me in achieving a different look plz help me with that and also how can i achieve high contrast with the grains to get that film look
thanks a lot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Look, you're shooting video... you can try these things (like Black ProMists) and SEE what it looks like and decide for yourself whether it is "different."

If you want MORE contrast in a scene with lighting, just light it more contrasty.

I'm not sure that film has a particular look to the contrast anyway -- I can cite examples of high and low contrast movies shot on film.

If you're hoping for me to tell you some simple trick to make video look like film, well, there isn't any. It's a combination of techniques and that will only make it look LESS like traditional video, which may be good enough.

But the truth is that you're going about this all wrong. You have a scene and you should have an artistic idea about the way it should look in terms of color, softness, lighting, camera angle, etc. and deciding what THAT should be will tell you how to shoot it. Taking the video edge off of video is a side issue completely.

You should use a Black ProMist because you want a Black ProMist look because your scene needs that look; whether it also makes the video look more film-ish may be a side benefit but it shouldn't be the main reason you are using a filter.

Some example of Black ProMist:
http://www.2filter.c...istfilters.html
http://www.camerafil..._Frameset.sosfr
  • 0

#9 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11938 posts
  • Other

Posted 17 May 2005 - 03:45 AM

Hi,

> wud
> i
> wat
> abt
> dese
> plz

i cant b bothud.

Phil
  • 0

#10 Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

Daniel J. Ashley-Smith
  • Guests

Posted 17 May 2005 - 06:08 AM

the main idea is to shoot in a lift wud dese filters help me in achieving a different look plz help me with that and also how can i achieve high contrast with the grains to get that film look
thanks a lot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take it you know about progressive scan and interlaced, right?

All a polarizer does is reduce reflections on shiny materials, like glass or something. It also reduces light levels by 2 stops. I can't see how it would make it look more like film.

Edited by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith, 17 May 2005 - 06:16 AM.

  • 0

#11 Jonathan Spear

Jonathan Spear
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 586 posts
  • Other

Posted 17 May 2005 - 08:47 AM

It's just a filter.
It looks cool on the lens and makes you look important (to the untrained photographer/cinematographer).

Why do so many newbies (including myself at one point) depserately yearn for an enormous, $1,500 6x6" matte box instead of a few screw-on filters and a decent sunshade?
It's not for convieniece, because most newbies (myself included) aren't on a tight shooting schedule and ultimately can't afford 6X6 filters anyway.
This is stuff I'm learning the hard way.

Matte boxes and filters won't help you get the ladies, sid_84, but cleverly shooting a good movie with a good story, great actors and interesting plot will.

Maybe.
  • 0

#12 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 17 May 2005 - 10:31 AM

All a polarizer does is reduce reflections on shiny materials, like glass or something. It also reduces light levels by 2 stops. I can't see how it would make it look more like film.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


In the right conditions, a polarizor reduces glare and sheen which may be clipping too much in video, so it DOES help with that aspect of video compared to film. A pola and ND grads are a basic part of my filter package when shooting HD, to help control bright highlights in the frame.

But polas (and grads) solve a very specific problem and aren't a cure-all.
  • 0

#13 Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

Daniel J. Ashley-Smith
  • Guests

Posted 17 May 2005 - 06:23 PM

In the right conditions, a polarizor reduces glare and sheen which may be clipping too much in video, so it DOES help with that aspect of video compared to film.  A pola and ND grads are a basic part of my filter package when shooting HD, to help control bright highlights in the frame.

But polas (and grads) solve a very specific problem and aren't a cure-all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a pretty good idea actually, tnx for that.
  • 0


Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Technodolly

Tai Audio

CineTape

Opal

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

Opal

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery