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Super 16 Test - Vimeo Compression


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#1 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 02:11 PM

I just shot a couple rolls of film - 7219, 7203 to se how the two stocks match in terms of grain. I shot it on Eclair NPR w/ hard front PL mount.

 

The apartment stuff was on 7219 rated at 500 with Optar 9.5mm lens

The driving sequences along with LA city tripod shots were on 7203 - rated at 50 - with Optar 9.5mm for the driving parts and Cooke 20-100 for the tripod shots.

 

There is absolutely no concept behind this. I wanted to put the two film stocks under various real world situations to see the result. I have a feature coming up next month on s16. 

 

 

Enjoy.


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#2 Josh Gladstone

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 02:33 PM

Ha! I know those places!

 

Looks like a good camera test to me! I especially liked the nighttime dark hallway shot with the illuminated room in the background.

 

(Also, I noticed the walking dead. Very meta.)


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#3 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 02:38 PM

Thank you so much. I'm sorry for the mess at my place. I've been on sets too much to take care of business home I suppose haha.


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#4 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 02:40 PM

One more note, the apartment stuff including the exteriors along the fence line were shot on 7219 without an 85 filter.


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#5 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 04:12 PM

Also, is there a way to handle s16 better on Vimeo? On the original material, the grain structure doesn't get all blocky as it does on some of the set-ups on the vimeo video clip. I rendered it out of Avid at h.264, with best rendering option and multiple pass setting.


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#6 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 04:38 PM

I recommend you download the original file under the "download" button since the Vimeo compression kills the grain structure. Thank you.


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#7 Perry Paolantonio

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 05:04 PM

I rendered it out of Avid at h.264, with best rendering option and multiple pass setting.

 

In a word ...Don't.

 

Feed the site the highest quality you can, even if that means you have to wait overnight to upload. H.264 is highly compressed even at high bit rates, and is strips out a lot of color information as well. Doesn't matter if *that* file looks good on your computer because Vimeo, Youtube and whoever will recompress it further, to their specs, after you've uploaded it. Think of it is as a photocopy of a photocopy. Generation loss and all that. 

 

Try uploading something like a ProRes 422 file (even regular ProRes 422 should give you an improvement, with a little file size savings over HQ). Also, higher resolution  matters here. If you can upload 2k, you get better HD when they recompress it. Same with YouTube. 

 

-perry


Edited by Perry Paolantonio, 17 July 2015 - 05:04 PM.

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#8 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 06:10 PM

The original file is prores 444. When I choose to keep the source format, the file size becomes exceeds Vimeo Plus limit, which is 5 gb/week.


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#9 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 06:37 PM

Nice camera test, thanks for sharing.

For Vimeo, I upload Pro Res LT. It's easy to transcode and it's decent quality, a lot better then MPEG anything.
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#10 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 06:50 PM

Thank you Tyler. I don't know if it's me but I really like the Cooke 20-100 sections of the clip.


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#11 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:24 PM

Here is the new link. This time, I exported as same as the original material out of Avid Prores 444, and then uploaded it to Vimeo. 

 


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#12 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:31 PM

Nice, much better. It's amazing how much more grain stands out on the pro res file.

Question… did you think about shooting anamorphic?
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#13 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 08:40 PM

I did, with 1.3x Hawks but due to their availability and cost, we will be shooting s16 and crop 2:35. I own the camera and the lenses - so no rental involved. Ironically, I enjoy shooting on the NPR. It is a highly modified camera with a hard front PL mount and a new Barney. The Groundglass is etched for 1:66, 1:85 and 2:35 by Visual Products along with full servicing of it. As you can see, the camera is rock steady - I guess you be the judge. Then again, those shots weren't locked off shots so it's harder to judge the camera's steadiness.


Edited by Giray Izcan, 17 July 2015 - 08:49 PM.

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#14 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:23 PM

Camera looks great. Does the NPR have a registration pin?

Are the Hawks that hard to find in LA? I want to shoot with them, but if they're hard/expensive to find, that maybe a deal killer. Might have to go with 1:66 which I'm OK with, just leave a bit of head room for 1.75:1 16x9 release.
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#15 Giray Izcan

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:28 PM

It does have a registration pin and a lateral pressure plate in the gate for lateral steadiness as well - sort of like the Aaton cameras.
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#16 Luke Roberts

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Posted 17 July 2015 - 09:46 PM

Nice test. I bet it's great to have a lot of camera rental options in Los Angeles. The only cool motion picture place out this way is Visual Products, which I have yet to visit.


Edited by Luke Roberts, 17 July 2015 - 09:47 PM.

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#17 Pavan Deep

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 06:37 AM

That's a really nice test, really shows the flexibility of Super 16. I am told that Youtube is better these days.

 

Pav


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#18 Kenny N Suleimanagich

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 12:43 PM

Great test. It’s astounding to see the prores version’s difference in less-blocky grain. 

 

 

 

Are the Hawks that hard to find in LA? 

 

Keslow carries them, so not too hard. There aren’t a great many sets to begin with, let alone stateside. 


Edited by Kenny N Suleimanagich, 18 July 2015 - 12:44 PM.

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#19 Giray Izcan

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Posted 18 July 2015 - 02:39 PM

Cool, Keslow does huh. It would be interesting to shoot with those for sure. I'll give Keslow a call I suppose. By the way, Perry, thanks for the advice on compression settings etc. I honestly did not even know you could upload anything other than h.264 to Vimeo. One other conclusion I reached during this test was that Optar and my Cooke 5:1 have a similar look, which is good in terms of intercutting the two together.


Edited by Giray Izcan, 18 July 2015 - 02:47 PM.

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#20 Josh Gladstone

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 03:19 PM

Rad. Yeah, the same goes for uploading to Youtube as well. And youtube allows resolutions up to 4k, which gives even higher bitrates, if you feel like uprezzing (but that would increase your file sizes and upload times significantly).

 

I've got a super16 eclair acl with arri b, pl, and cameflex mounts. Let me know if you ever want to get together and eclair it up around LA.


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