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U16 and S16 cropped to 2:40


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#1 Seth C King

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 05:16 PM

Has anyone shot a comparison test using native U16 and S16 and then cropping to 2:40?

When cropped to 2:40, U16 total negative area comes up to .464 x .193 and S16 is .488 x .203. If my calculations are correct there is a difference of .009 in area, which isn't a substantial amount considering the size being utilized between the two.

Just curious if there would be a significant notice in grain on the U16 as its using slightly less total negative area.

Same question for cropping the two to 1:85?
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#2 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:54 PM

Depends on stock, lighting conditions, lenses and scan.

 

Assuming similar stock and lenses they will be about the same.


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#3 Doug Palmer

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 04:07 AM

If considering U16  it may be an idea to widen the gate slightly more.   Although non-standard (and maybe getting in to some scan difficulty)  it's possible to get quite wide ratios this way on 16mm.  And the image would then be wider than S16.   But depending on the film-stock used there may be problems with the code numbers ;)

 

http://www.filmisfin...m-become-wider/


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#4 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:03 AM

Another excellent overview, Doug!
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#5 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 11:24 AM

All the newer scanners can basically scan from the left edge to the right edge of the negative so setting up to scan to an extra wide U16 gate is no trouble.


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#6 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 03:10 PM

Why not shoot anamorphic? :shrug:
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#7 Seth C King

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 04:27 PM

Thanks all for the input. This has been of technical interest to me since reading Anton Wilson's Cinema Workshop a few months ago. The book is full of valuable information and the chapter on formats is what got me curious about the various options for 16mm.
All of my gear and lenses are R16/U16 so that's what I'm working with.

Anamorphic would be the way to go if it was affordable. The anamorphic adapter option seems cumbersome and limited with regards to minimum focal length required for the adapters. I hate wasting image area as much as the next guy but cropping is the option for me right now.

So initially I was curious as to how U16 and S16 cropped to 2:40 would look compared to anamorphic R16 but I'm unable to find decent examples. Any links would be appreciated.
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#8 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 05:26 PM

Ahh got ya, you already have U16 stuff. What camera are you using with U16? Can you convert most cameras?

Anamorphic 16 would be achieved with modern lenses from Hawk. They look fantastic and if you do a google search for Hawk Anamorphic 16, you'll find lots of samples. There have been many films shot 16mm anamorphic.
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#9 Seth C King

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 05:54 PM

I've got an SRII. The S and BL are out, if I'm not mistaken, due to limited clearance at the gate. The Eclairs can be done as I know a couple of guys with modded cameras, as well as the Krosnogorsk. Not sure about Bolex or Canon.
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#10 Tyler Purcell

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:16 PM

Cool! Very interesting proposition, heck of a lot cheaper then renting anamorphic lenses.
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#11 John Christopher Vicera Geronilla

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 11:52 PM

Seth,

 

I found a cool EDM machining place locally and had my gate widened 1.4mm for an ultra 16mm frame on my Arri SR2.

Is that the only modification you needed to make on an SR?

 

How is your viewfinder situation?

 

I haven't shot with the camera yet. Just received it back from Clairmont some servicing.


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#12 Seth C King

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 08:42 PM

John

My SR II was U16 modified before I purchased it, by Bernie at Super 16 Inc., and the fiber optic screen is the R16 version. I've noticed that the hashed out left and right edges of the optic screen seem to be the correct amount for U16 so I use those as my guides. I further masked off the top and bottom to 1.85 with masking tape, which falls just inside the top and bottom lines of the TV safe area. I have a second optic screen masked to 2.40, but I've yet to do a test of that aspect ratio to see how well it turns out.
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